Confused about people's obsession with open world raids/dungeons.

[WiiSam]

"They suck. You just want to zerg or something? I'm not sure I understand why open world is better.

It really sucks waiting on another party or stealing from another party the boss in U'Ghamaro Mines. There is nothing good or fair about open world. And please don't tell me because you want to watch. Wait for it to show on youtube.

No more open world dungeons please, if you want, put a roaming boss, that's fine, but not an entire dungeon. I'm fighting dudes for coffers all day that's annoying. Infact, do us all a favour and make the strongholds instanced!"

That was my original post. After much discussion it has evolved to this:

Again, I am not saying that there shouldn't be any open world content. I am saying that open world content can be as many as SE wants to implement but they she refrain from being competitive like the current strongholds. I put a link to another thread of someone complaining about the competition I find negative.

I am not saying (even though in the OP it may seem like I did, but I repeat, my opinion has evolved as mentioned above) that there shouldn't be any open world "dungeons". I am saying that they should be plenty but they should not carry important loot especially not from a drop from the boss. They should be quests/faction grinding/item collection or whatever. And like one guy said not ONE enemy should drop the key. Every mob should in the dungeon should.

I am also saying let us keep roaming NMs for the competitive factor because of how cool the idea is of a roaming NM. That competition is perfectly fine because it is AWESOME to see a roaming NM get defeated either by you or another party. So you're asking, why let the roaming NMs be competitive but not the strongholds? Because the strongholds feel more like a grind when it competitive, no awesome, epic feel to it. You're grinding against another party or person for a very boring claim to get a coffer key, eg the Natalan Sentry. How is that good competition? It is just a silly claim war/grind to try to get the key.

If I wasn't clear about anything please point it out for me and I will try to explain in more detail. Reading the above, how can anyone really say I'm not compromising? I love open world, just don't want it to be a grinding and vicious competition. That is not a valid way to promote open world content. A fun way to promote it is to provide people with reasons to want to team up and enjoy content instead of wanting at each others' throats for it.

[Chardrizard]

I prefer instanced content, but i also believe in balance between Open World and Instances, both can co-exist.

[Corrderio]

Open World Content is fine as long as it has a use.

Yoshida said he wants the best gear to be instanced. So the question is what can SE do to keep open world content worthwhile.

[Khazar]

i think open world roaming bosses are ok and fun, i liked some open world bosses in wow or daoc like any of the dragons etc, but for dungeons i prefer instanced, at least high end content dungeons, open dungeons oriented to level up are ok.

[Ruinaru]

Some people don't like being teleported into a closed off series of corridors for everything they do in-game. It's supposed to be a persistent world. That should mean that content can be enjoyed in said world. I'm not saying I want HNM camping, stealing, and botting to become the basis for endgame again, but I really hope they don't separate all the content from the game world. What's the point of the world if you don't play in it most of the time? There should be more to do than just level. you should be able to see other people from the world while you're doing said things. Go play a non-MMO if you don't want to see anyone but the people you're playing with.

[WiiSam]

There should be more to do than just level. you should be able to see other people from the world while you're doing said things. Go play a non-MMO if you don't want to see anyone but the people you're playing with.

But not dungeons man. You don't want to limit participation through competition, the only thing worse than not seeing people is not be able to do anything because the competition is vicious.

I want to only play with my friends in an MMO that is my business. A non-mmo cannot offer me the continous enjoyment, advancement, and improvement that an mmo come so thats an invalid point and a little bit sour, sir.

There should be other things to do in-game, sure, but they should be activities that people can enjoy together non-competitively. Such as mini games, questing, side quests, side stories, etc. That is why the idea of leves shouldn't be abolished, they are awesome, they are "instances" in the outside world, so everyone sees each other and what they are doing but can't interfere.

[TheFatHousecat]

I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for this, but I like open-world content because of the competition. Yes it can be really frustrating, but nothing feels better than, after days/weeks of claim wars/wiping to a new open-world NM, finally being able to kill said NM - in front of a handful of other groups.

It makes the world feel a little more epic that you can run around and see people in broad daylight defeating NMs, rather than just a cave full of people crowding around an aetheryte. Do you really want a world full of aertheryte nodes that lead to awesome dungeons/strongholds/NMs, or do you want to have the option to explore and fight through them without needing to gather together a full party and farm Inferno Tapers?

They both have their pros and cons: open-world NMs feel more epic and unique, and it feels awesome being able to get the first kill in front of your competition. Then again sometimes it does simply come down to a claim war and who has the least latency. Instanced NMs are arguably more skill-based, because you spend more time fighting than running back from an aetheryte and fighting over claim, but at the same time, having a room full of people sitting around an aetheryte seems sort of boring at some point.

Ofc. I also like instanced content, like Char said earlier I feel like there should be a good balance of both. Perhaps have open-world NMs drop a U/U materia or armor, while instanced drop weapons? I don't want to be confined to a cave for the rest of my endgame content career, but neither do I necessarily want to have to have a claim war over every NM.

[Dreamer]

I like my game world to feel like a world, and open world content promotes that. If everything shuffles you off to your own little instance, what's the purpose of having the game world to begin with? May as well make it like DDO where everything in the game is an instance. It's not an MMORPG, it's a glorified lobby game.

That doesn't mean I'm against instances. I think the have their place especially when done well. But the game needs to balance the two to maximize the effectiveness of them both.

[MeowyWowie]

But not dungeons man. You don't want to limit participation through competition, the only thing worse than not seeing people is not be able to do anything because the competition is vicious.

I want to only play with my friends in an MMO that is my business. A non-mmo cannot offer me the continous enjoyment, advancement, and improvement that an mmo come so thats an invalid point and a little bit sour, sir.

There should be other things to do in-game, sure, but they should be activities that people can enjoy together non-competitively. Such as mini games, questing, side quests, side stories, etc. That is why the idea of leves shouldn't be abolished, they are awesome, they are "instances" in the outside world, so everyone sees each other and what they are doing but can't interfere.

Sounds like you just hate competition.

Well, some people like it. Tough.

[Stufoo]

They suck. You just want to zerg or something? I'm not sure I understand why open world is better.

It does suck that currently you can fight the HNMs and Bosses with more than a max party, and I agree it should be adjusted. I don't know what this has to do with open world content, just the new battle system.

It really sucks waiting on another party or stealing from another party the boss in U'Ghamaro Mines. There is nothing good or fair about open world.

This is a problem though, and will only grow as the game does. The best answer to this is not instanced content however, you can have pop items or crafted items that will spawn these monsters to the alliance that provides the item. Take for example, the storyline behind the Wanted: Tarbh Uisge leve quests. You kill plants and gnats in leves one and two, to make food to lure him in leve three. This should have been applied to the world spawn Great Buffalo instead, killing lv. 55~ plants and gnats for ingredient drops, crafting the food with a culinarian, and using it to fight the buffalo. You no longer fight for spawns to such an extent, since the plants and gnats are more plentiful, it incorporates crafting a bit, you don't have to wait on weather or daytime, and you don't get people in Bald Knoll trampled by random-spawn bosses while they try to do leves, but, they still get to see him and get excited about future fights they'll experience after they finish leveling.

These methods were used to fix multiple trouble NMs in FFXI, including Pallas, Alkyoneus, Ullikummi, and even Fafnir. Creating an instance for every single piece of content in the game is also a lot of work compared to injecting a notorious monster and a pop item into an existing world, especially if you want all of the instances to be unique. I would rather the NM have a unique section of the world, such as the Behemoth peak in the 2.0 map preview, and Dragon's Aery in XI, compared to a boring cave with the sole purpose of housing an NM (Sandworm Instances, most burning circle arenas in XI, etc.)

The experienced players that are in the area can also give tips to linkshells that might be having trouble with the fight, or just a simple gesture such as a /cheer emote, or a congratulations. Watching other people play an MMO as you go about your own way has a bigger impact than you might think, and it is apparent with instanced heavy MMOs that feel such a disconnect from their own community and world. This is not to say you should be forced to watch as another linkshell has stolen an HNM or competed for a spawn with you, those are issues that should be addressed but what I am saying is that instanced is not always the answer.

And please don't tell me because you want to watch. Wait for it to show on youtube.

Why play the game at all? Eventually all cutscenes, storylines, and bosses will not only be on youtube but all over the internet. This is a bad reason to support instancing.