How Would You Do... Summoner?

[Silverquick]

Please, please remember who you are speaking to; even if you dislike what "the other side" has to say, that side does not become a conglomerate hive mind. Just because I, too, may disagree with you or find interest in something you dislike does not grant me the memories of all who have done the same. I have never once mentioned FFXI here or in any other SMN thread. I never so much as had an FFXI account.

Well it wouldn't surprise me... if you did.

You are under the impression this job even NEEDS an "improvement" other than the normal progression the job is already on. Its already been done... by moving in the opposite direction.

I am looking at a guide right now written by one of those SMNs who was there... and brings up just how they balanced the job is now and how bad it really was to play back then, and how much better it is today vs it was more of a pet oriented job.

On top of that I can directly say those AoEs are critical to the jobs placement and nich in this game. It has a serious role, one that doesn't conflict with the BLM either, but rather harmonizes with it.

And on top of that doesn't conflict with its Support Class side which is known as the Scholar so even those portions are well divided and well balanced.

Yet in your previous arguments you were more than willing to toss all that out like it was nothing.

[Okamimaru]

There isn't really a problem with the class other than the name... just change the name and give every class it's own personal summon style limit break that builds up kinda like the limit break meter.... you charge it up and when you use it is up to you....

[Iromi]

I would give Contagion to the Summoner first off. Then change the looks of the egi, make em look a but more epic ^^ then make more egi....not glamour ones, with buffs and debuffs skills...other then that I guess I'd leave the job be. At this point all I would like to see is more pet skills.

[Allyrion]

Well it wouldn't surprise me... if you did.

You are under the impression this job even NEEDS an "improvement" other than the normal progression the job is already on. Its already been done... by moving in the opposite direction.

I am looking at a guide right now written by one of those SMNs who was there... and brings up just how they balanced the job is now and how bad it really was to play back then, and how much better it is today vs it was more of a pet oriented job.

On top of that I can directly say those AoEs are critical to the jobs placement and nich in this game. It has a serious role, one that doesn't conflict with the BLM either, but rather harmonizes with it.

And on top of that doesn't conflict with its Support Class side which is known as the Scholar so even those portions are well divided and well balanced.

Yet in your previous arguments you were more than willing to toss all that out like it was nothing.

Just to start, I want to say I'm generally on the same side as you on this issue. I like the current SMN and I think the additions in HW was the perfect direction for it (for me anyway). I never wanted an emphasis on pet micromanagement, and I don't think FF summons have ever been about that anyway (minus 11).

But I think you're mistaken on how SMN was before. It was never that focused on the pet. People complaining now about that, they complained back then too. The 60 rotation only filled out the down time of the 60 one and added an aoe (Tri-disaster being more of a QoL change). The downtime being waiting for aetherflow after using up all your stacks.

Any min-maxing the pet back then should be done now too. It was only focused on back then because SMN had less to do and the pet's damage was a bigger percent of our overall damage since our rotation has less skills. But the bare-bones pet management system now wasn't any more involved at 50.

And though SMN sucked in Final Coil, why is that the only thing people remember? During the First and Second, SMN was the best single target ranged dps. A good SMN could compete with a MNK in terms of raw dps while they also brought more utility like a battle rez (while not being the healer).

This also brings up the next point. I wouldn't hold a ton of weight in SMN as an aoe class being an important niche. Precisely because BLM was once king of all AoE for so long, no one would believe it is the way it is now. SMN being great at single target meant that indeed the casters were balanced like that before but since it was flipped, I don't think it's something to hold on to.

Some jobs will always have better AoE but being an AOE class is not a thing. Luckily, SMN's single target is still good and doesn't suffer for it.

Lastly, let's be real about popularity. SMN went from the least flashy class to what might be the most flashy. That, I firmly believe, accounts for most of the rise in popularity. Viability doesn't always lead to popularity. MNK was the least popular in most of ARR while being the highest dps.

The other reason is a lot of BLM's switched because people like AoE and they went to the new king of AoE. Those same people will switch again if SMN's AoE isn't better than BLM or RDM after the scaling, new skills and general damage adjustments at 70. There's really no guarantees it will be.
(Did I mention MNK went from laughable-just-give-up AoE to the best melee AoE job with one skill going into 60. Do not trust SE to let you keep your niche.)




The only thing I would like with SMN is for the egi's to show up with some of the abilities. It could even just be the new skills, rather than redoing the old ones. No pet management, just more visuals to show mastery over the egi's.

I wouldn't like the Egi to look too much like the originals just because of the lore. It's already a little handwavey how they justified SMN while making the primals inherently destructive presences (not just to our enemies). If they actually looked like mini-versions, it would be too much imo.

My ideal SMN would not be dot based. It would be a pure nuking class. It would not have even have pet though it might have skills to summon an uncontrollable ones temporarily (though the current pet isn't horrible). All of its skills would have a visual that includes the Egi appearing to do the damage. Similar to the Wildfire animation where you see the machine appear next to the mob and it blows fire one it.

None of that will happen but that's what I would do. The development of Dreadwyrm is a fine path too and I would keep that with mine as well. I think SMN has only improved since ARR.

[Sarynth]

OK so, been wanting to make a post in this thread because even though SE probably won't change smn any time soon I thought it'd be fun to get the ideas out there at least.

So starting off...
35 bonus attribute points tied to job stones (not like its really a choice where they go anyway)
Also egi are same size but art style changed to be similar to carbuncle art style.
Increase types of carbunles for egi glamours as well.

Enkindle replaced by Astral Flow.

Astral Flow: Allows the casting of your egi's signature ability
. Increases magic damage dealt by 10% while lowering the MP cost of Ruin III.
Can only be executed when Aethertrail Attunement stack is 3.
Aethertrail Attunement is achieved when an Aetherflow action used by you inflicts an effect on a target.
Duration: 15s.

note about Astral Flow: each egi has its own unique animation for its signature ability similar to how trance/deathflare
have Bahamut animations currently.

Miasma 2 replaced with Mana Cede
Mana Cede: Slowly drains mp to increase the potency of the current egis actions including actions unlocked by enkindle.
300 mp per tick (3 second server ticks) in exchange for 20 potency increase to actions. Only affects egi actions.

Bio 2 replaced with Poison (same potency, duration etc. just a name and icon change)

Contagion: now an acn ability, Garuda egi gains "Predator Claws"
Predator Claws: Delivers a four hit attack for 30 potency each hit. Individual hits can crit. 120 potency total.

Ruin 2: increased to 100 potency and blind effect removed.

Limit Break 3 unchanged (Teraflare seems fitting for smn since their allagan ties in lore)

Dreadwyrm Trance/Deathflare/Tri-bind: removed and replaced with... (not sure what potency to give the new egis below tbh just giving ability names)

Shiva-egi:
Axe kick
Double Slap
Rush
Heavenly Strike
Diamond Dust (Astral Flow)

Ramuh-egi:
Shock Strike
Rolling Thunder (aoe stun)
Chaotic Strike
Thunderstorm
Judgement Bolt (Astral Flow)

Leviathan-egi:
Tail Whip
Slowga
Grand Fall
Spinning Dive
Tidal Wave (Astral Flow)

*edited for clarity

[Neela]

- change the looks of the egi, make em look a but more epic ^^
- then make more egi....not glamour ones, with buffs and debuffs skills...
- at this point all I would like to see is more pet skills.

- jupp
- jupp
- jupp

<3

[Dyvid]

Well at least they finally added a proper Bahamut Summon. Only suggested it two years ago to replace trance head >_>

Still think they should change summons for more utility in combat:

Summon 1 = Tank Pet
Summon 2 = Melee Single Target DPS Pet
Summon 3 = Ranged AoE DPS Pet

[Silverquick]

Dreadwyrm Trance/Deathflare/Tri-bind: removed and replaced with... (not sure what potency to give the new egis below tbh just giving ability names)

Shiva-egi:
Axe kick
Double Slap
Rush
Heavenly Strike
Diamond Dust (Enkindle only)

Ramuh-egi:
Shock Strike
Rolling Thunder (aoe stun)
Chaotic Strike
Thunderstorm
Judgement Bolt (Enkindle only)

Leviathan-egi:
Tail Whip
Slowga
Grand Fall
Spinning Dive
Tidal Wave (Enkindle only)

Well right now with Deathflare... I can wipe out whole packs of 6-10 mobs... with my sidecar DPS with just Painflares, Deathflare/Teraflare, Bane DoTs, and Garuda Aerial Blast, in about 30 seconds.

Will I be able to do that with these new Egis?

If I can't... then we just locked the SMN back at 50th level while the rest of the Jobs moved on to 70th level...

[Okamimaru]

Well right now with Deathflare... I can wipe out whole packs of 6-10 mobs... with my sidecar DPS with just Painflares, Deathflare/Teraflare, Bane DoTs, and Garuda Aerial Blast, in about 30 seconds.

Will I be able to do that with these new Egis?

If I can't... then we just locked the SMN back at 50th level while the rest of the Jobs moved on to 70th level...

I bet you were the kid in art class in elementary school who told other kids they drew monsters wrong... we KNOW you like things as they are, we get it.... you main SMN... but let's be real you only care about damage and not the spirit of summoner.... this thread is how would you make summoner, you instead rip apart anything that isn't in line with your "big-d*ck dps or it's total garbage" mentality... at this point you're posts are more tedious and annoying than useful in any way besides to stroke your own overinflated ego....

[Sarynth]

Well right now with Deathflare... I can wipe out whole packs of 6-10 mobs... with my sidecar DPS with just Painflares, Deathflare/Teraflare, Bane DoTs, and Garuda Aerial Blast, in about 30 seconds.

Will I be able to do that with these new Egis?

If I can't... then we just locked the SMN back at 50th level while the rest of the Jobs moved on to 70th level...

Pretty much yes, not that I don't like deathflare (I love it actually) but you pick your summon based on content then astral flow abilities would work similar to how it is currently. Should probably refine my post for more clarity.