Necromancer Identity Crisis

[Silverquick]

As for SilverQuick, stop throwing shade at people who aren't happy with the massive overhaul 3.0 did to jobs.

They main'ed those jobs long before you even started playing, most stop playing because of the slap in the face it was. For everyone who started playing FFXIV after 3.0, the main complaint is simple. back in 2013 SE added a "pet" job called Summoner that played very similar to vanilla WoW Warlock, which is fine since BLM cover the glass cannon dps. We had our beefs like tri-disaster, egi size and appearance, and Garuda's contagion. Yoshi-P said in the next expansion we could expect to get Ramuh, Shiva, and Levi as pets. Then 3.0 hit and we got a Bahamut head with pew pew lasers. The problem is, like many other "enhancements" 3.0 did to other jobs, it didn't further the original design people played for 2 years.

If you think veteran summoner's are mad, go talk to Veteran Bards and how much they enjoyed wanderer's minuet.

Yeah I get that... but dude... lets face reality here.

The changes in 3.0 and moving towards the Dreadwyrm Trance and Bahamut Teraflare really ARE the direction people wanted to go with. The job is much more powerful... and popular than it ever was.

This one is starting to fit the actual FF Summoner.

Some of these people really are just living in their own little world.

While I understand they want to go backwards to the old version of the job or the half assed version that was the FFXI summoner. The reality is, that old FFXIV Summoner was incredibly unpopular... and by all accounts weak. And I can personally vouch for how crappy the old FFXI Summoner was too.

The people who actually play the job want to move in the direction of the Heavensward changes... that IS what really made the job good and fun to play.

As to the old Arcanist powers that are still with the SMN, I have no problem with it, because it was the BASE job... and the Summoner was the Prestige job. So I accept it still will use the old powers of the base job as a base layer to work from with the additions of the things you learned later as a Summoner.

Nothing wrong with that, given the history of the individual who started as an Arcanist and how he became a Summoner and is still learning how to be one.

Still no one can argue with the fact the Heavenward changes have made the job incredibly popular and powerful now.

[Nerisu]

I think the best thing they can do now is just change the animations and names of the Bio and Miasma spells into something more related to the other primals when the SMN soul crystal is equipped to at least make it feel like Dissidia Yuna. I don't see them doing it though but who know?

I'm more worried about the animations of the next egi-glams, though (that is, if we're still getting actual egis and not just more recolored carbies). I don't want to see something like Ramuh-egi farting out wind attacks or Shiva-egi dealing flame damage.

[Yorumi]

To me they really missed an opportunity to use summons as part of skill animations. Summoners in FF have had all kinds of summons, they should have made for example tri-disaster's graphic summon something, hit the target, and then desummon. They could have had ruin III under dreadwyrm do random summons. Imagine doing dreadwyrm and every ruin III is a random summon that does an attack like leviathan, ramuh, shiva, sephirot, ravana etc. Perhaps not perfect but I bet there would be a lot less complaints about not feeling like a summoner.

While I understand they want to go backwards to the old version of the job or the half assed version that was the FFXI summoner. The reality is, that old FFXIV Summoner was incredibly unpopular... and by all accounts weak. And I can personally vouch for how crappy the old FFXI Summoner was too.

Considering this is so much of the foundation of your argument you really should stop cause it just makes you look silly. You're using straw man arguments. People arn't asking for clones of ffxi's summoner or something. The thing is even if they were asking for near mechanical clones of ffxi's summoner they wouldn't also be asking for it to be underpowered. The mechanical abilities of a job are independent of it's power balance.

[Silverquick]

Considering this is so much of the foundation of your argument you really should stop cause it just makes you look silly. You're using straw man arguments. People arn't asking for clones of ffxi's summoner or something. The thing is even if they were asking for near mechanical clones of ffxi's summoner they wouldn't also be asking for it to be underpowered. The mechanical abilities of a job are independent of it's power balance.

Naw,

Its not making me look stupid at all... it may be a strawman, but after you've seen enough of these... just wait... soon the topic will drift there

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

[Yorumi]

Naw,

Its not making me look stupid at all... it may be a strawman, but after you've seen enough of these... just wait... soon the topic will drift there

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

By saying you're ok with a straw man you're quite literally saying you don't want a rational discussion.

[Silverquick]

By saying you're ok with a straw man you're quite literally saying you don't want a rational discussion.

No.. I just know that it was never intended as a rational discussion in the first place... it was just an agenda.

When actual SMNs come out and talk about things I generally give them an honest answer and did at first... but someone who doesn't even play the job is doing it. It's pretty suspect. And its not fooling anyone anymore.

And its always someone playing some other job doing this... not actual SMN's who are playing the job talking about that.

Those I actually respect, and have reason to.

[Dyvid]

You never asked yourself why a pair of WHMs would come complain about a DPS class did you?

These are the comments that bug me the most about your rebuttals. You just assume that someone who plays another job has never touched or main'ed SMN before. That "WHM" has more jobs at level 60 than you do including ACN. I would be willing to bet everyone at this discussion has ACN at 60. I changed my main class to Miner but do you honestly think that's my main?

[Silverquick]

These are the comments that bug me the most about your rebuttals. You just assume that someone who plays another job has never touched or main'ed SMN before. That "WHM" has more jobs at level 60 than you do including ACN. I would be willing to bet everyone at this discussion has ACN at 60.

Yeah but guess what there man...

That means jack diddly squat compared to the people who ARE maining it... and DO play it regularly...

I moonlight as a BLM... but I sure as hell don't run around telling them they should change the entire job because I don't like something a certain way.

How much arrogance does it take to do that?

[Yorumi]

Yeah but guess what there man...

That means jack diddly squat compared to the people who ARE maining it... and DO play it regularly...

I moonlight as a BLM... but I sure as hell don't run around telling them they should change the entire job because I don't like something a certain way.

How much arrogance does it take to do that?

This is ad hominem fallacy. I don't think you've made a valid and rational argument this entire thread. People also don't necessarily keep their main updated on the forums. I've personally gone through phases maining one job for months, deciding I wanted a chance of pace, and maining something else for months. It's also not hard to play multiple jobs. Beyond that you really don't need to know a job mechanically to comment on the aesthetics of a job. We're not talking about playing the job to it's maximum potential, we're talking cosmetics. For that it doesn't really matter how much someone has played the job. You're the one actually making a worthless contribution to the thread by continuing to spout one irrational statement after the next. it's rather childish to respond with essentially "oh yeah well I don't care what you have to say cause you didn't click a forum button to set your main job to summoner."

[Silverquick]

This is ad hominem fallacy. I don't think you've made a valid and rational argument this entire thread. People also don't necessarily keep their main updated on the forums. I've personally gone through phases maining one job for months, deciding I wanted a chance of pace, and maining something else for months. It's also not hard to play multiple jobs. Beyond that you really don't need to know a job mechanically to comment on the aesthetics of a job.

Oh yeah because.... you know... you obviously do play main it right? ....and of course any changes will totally affect YOU and...

....NOT THE PEOPLE WHO MAIN IT OR PLAY IT REGULARLY... right??

Or are you that arrogant that you truly believe you should just hop on and dictate to the people who do play it how the class SHOULD be?

Don't know how much more clear I can make that.