blue mage

[TarynH]

I still say the whole learning thing could be solved with job quests. Especially if the quest is something like tracking down the monster, and then fighting it. BLU doesn't necessarily have to get hit by the ability. It could be a different take on the job where they observe it in action and learn it. A lot of people want traditional. They want that FFXI BLU, where you have to beat the mob with a wooden katana until it submits. If RDM can take a different approach, why not BLU? Besides, the job starting at lv50~ kind of defeats the purpose of learning spells anyway.

[Zojha]

A lot of people want traditional.

Well, that's the entire point of appealing to nostalgia and FF tradition by implementing traditional FF jobs, rather than something new and innovative >_>

[TarynH]

something new and innovative

Sounds good! I like taking things out of context too!

The point in my post was that while yes, people do want traditional, the developers can also think a little outside the box. Like RDM. It looks traditional. Has traditional elements; using sword and magic, with light armor. But it's innovative in the fact that they gave it it's own "red magic," so it will have a defined role. They could do the same with BLU, which already has it's own "blue magic," but is difficult to place in FFXIV. Which has been stated in the past. It has also been stated that they are not sure how to implement a "spell learning" system.

So yes, tradition is great and all, but if it doesn't fit, then they have to get creative with it.

[Okamimaru]

No matter the role it's pretty safe to say that any BLU skills would be gained in instanced job quests like every other job.... the lore as to if we observe, get hit or "consume" enemies is secondary... tho I like the idea of consuming enemies to gain skills (been done in previous ff titles)

[Zojha]

The point in my post was that while yes, people do want traditional, the developers can also think a little outside the box.

And my point was that innovation is the antithesis to tradition. So if you're going to think outside the box when appealing to tradition, there is no point in appealing to tradition in the first place.

Hence, why Summoner is so commonly complained about, in spite of being a solid job. I'm fairly certain that the same will happen to Red Mage as well - the perceived identity of a red mage simply doesn't fit in a trinity game, so the people you appealed to by putting a traditional job in in the first place will be disappointed, because they aren't going to get the tradition they wanted the job for, they're going to get something else.
That's not to say people won't enjoy the job - but they'd enjoy it just as much if it had been sold as Spell Fencer instead.

The same applies to Blue Mage. If you can't offer a traditional blue mage, don't do something else and sell it as one - Sell it as something new from the get-go. The only thing you lose is a bit of hype before people realize it's not going to be the traditional blue mage they hoped for, but something else that just carries the same name.

[TarynH]

Snip

A good example of keeping with tradition, while making innovative changes, would be Batman's origin story. Through the years it has received several tweaks; including how he was trained to fight, how he thought up the costume, how he acquired his tools, etc. Some of them were little, and some were huge changes. However, the traditional narrative of his parents being killed hasn't changed.

I'm saying you can still have the traditional BLU. It can still learn spells. Although the easiest way to implement this would be through job quests. However, unless they make sweeping changes to the job system, the job has to fit into one role. Which is why people debate over dps vs tank. But nowhere was it determined the BLU had to be "hit" in order to learn the spells. They simply had to witness the spell being used, regardless of it hitting the BLU or not. How else would you explain the healing and buff spells it learns? The BLU isn't "hit" by those.

Edit: Going back and looking at "traditional" BLU, it's pretty un-traditional. It seems to change with almost every iteration. Being hit, witnessing it, stealing it with Lancet, obtaining items dropped by enemies, eating the enemy, to beating a mob senseless to give it TP (a combination of being hit/witnessing). So I think they have a lot of wiggle room there to play with "tradition."

[ty_taurus]

Touching on the topic of BLU learning skills from mobs... I want to bring up a point of what game design is when you break it down. Final Fantasy XIV has a structure for its classes. You have three roles, Tank, DPS, and Healer. All classes designed for combat will always fall into 1 of these and 1 of these only. All actions and traits across all classes are learned at the same levels. These are structural standards of the game. The reality is, a BLU learning actions from a mob does not fit in that structure.

It's similar to when people wanted Red Mage to be a DPS, Tank, and Healer all in one. The reality is, that isn't how this game is designed, and trying to break those rules would create a balancing nightmare because you're trying to reinvent the wheel for one tire while the other three are still round. It's the same reason you're not going to see a new anime character introduced to SpongeBob, or a Jeti in a future Harry Potter book. It just doesn't fit.

Designing the BLU to "learn skills from enemies" through job quests is the only way that the designers could retain the integrity of the traditional BLU while still following FFXIV's basic structure.

[Steady]

I almost want to argue that Blue Mage and Beastmaster should be Tanks because their known solo-ers. For example, Beastmaster could summon a Tank beast and command it while it's tanking. Think Smn/Egi... except where the Egi is the real source of combat while the Beastmaster assists. They could have Tank pots and DPS pots to represent their tank stance and dps stances. Maybe different beasts could be represented differently... like standing on the shoulders of a physical tank one while having the magic one holding you behind it with their tail curled around your waist. Have it be entirely about the pet, and not the master... which was kinda what I gathered was the biggest SMN complaint with egi's.

AS for Blue.. I think they'd be best represented by a Tank, because tanks do heal, dps, and take damage... and Blue was a jack of all trades job. How can you represent that without making some special exception for them? I don't think SE will make exceptions like that. We'll see how folks like RDM.. but i think folks will be a little disappointed they won't have the healing/defensive abilities of XI.

Though it's worth noting that both BST and BLU had secondary systems in place, namely a Rock/Scissors/Paper mechanic when it came to picking your mob based off ecosystems. http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_Strength_Chart

If we have anything like that now... it's entirely hidden to us at present. Also, aside from maybe a hunt mob... what does anyone need help soloing in this game anyhow?

[KingFrost]

I'm​ had an idea for BLU not long ago I thought was pretty clever. Whether it's a DPS or tank, all of it's skills need to be universal. This is not even just a matter of certain people being "lazy" but also unintentionally missing out. That'd be a ton more work for gains that wouldn't put you above other Job. So, my idea was skill glamour. That is to say, all the skills will serve the same function, but you could "learn" a completely same functioning skill from some rando monster.

Example. A class quest gives you an AoE. Let's say it's Aqua Lung/Breath. Well, let's say you're out adventuring and slay some form of Malboro (Just killing it seems the smartest implementation IMO), and boom, you can now use Bad Breath, but only in place of Aqua Lung/Breath. This could apply for many other skill. Spider Web/Stone Gaze for slowing enemies down. Level ??? Death/Holy for an LB. It'd take a lot of work, and would honestly just be a vanity project for SE at that point, but who wouldn't love the job?

As for role, I'd say melee DPS, but with strong utility makes the most sense. Blu has always been about bringing the pain first, with very few, but very powerful​ utility skills (White Wind and Mighty Guard being prime examples).

Also, an aside here (If we do go tank), maybe if the story goes to Garlean, the BLU is a BLUe Knight. They mimic/capture/steal the powers of base monsters to replicate magic power since they can't use it naturally. It also gives us an excuse to have Micro Missile.