Advanced dungeons

[Lambdafish]

Players will just skip as much as they can to complete the dungeon as fast as they can.

So? Not every run of a dungeon needs to be a brand new fulfilling experience that feels fresh every single time. Content gets old and people turn it into a routine, that is fine. This is not a reason why the devs should not design interesting dungeons that present new and fresh challenges from other dungeons, what we have now is the same A to B corridor (literally in the case of antitower) that is uninteresting and forgettable after just the first attempt.

I hate this argument because it degrades the entire game by saying "why try to make content good? people only want rewards"

[dragonseth07]

So? Not every run of a dungeon needs to be a brand new fulfilling experience that feels fresh every single time. Content gets old and people turn it into a routine, that is fine. This is not a reason why the devs should not design interesting dungeons that present new and fresh challenges from other dungeons, what we have now is the same A to B corridor (literally in the case of antitower) that is uninteresting and forgettable after just the first attempt.

I hate this argument because it degrades the entire game by saying "why try to make content good? people only want rewards"

Because it ended up being a waste of effort. All of that extra stuff built into Sastasha, Haukke, Brayflox, etc. essentially ended up being a waste of dev time, because everyone skips it constantly.

[Lambdafish]

Because it ended up being a waste of effort. All of that extra stuff built into Sastasha, Haukke, Brayflox, etc. essentially ended up being a waste of dev time, because everyone skips it constantly.

The real waste of effort is making bland cookie cutter corridors that players do not enjoy playing.

Also, what time frame are you using? any time after the initial 3-4 months that the content is out is when the content is outdated (thus speedrunnable). I remember wanderers palace being interesting and unique long after the initial 3 months. As for Haukke manor, it isn't the picking up of the keys that is interesting, rather the dungeons level design; the dungeon feels like a sprawling house, not a corridor, regardless of whether you speedrun it or not.

[Ultimatecalibur]

The real waste of effort is making bland cookie cutter corridors that players do not enjoy playing.

Also, what time frame are you using? any time after the initial 3-4 months that the content is out is when the content is outdated (thus speedrunnable). I remember wanderers palace being interesting and unique long after the initial 3 months.

Wanderer's Palace had rewards on side paths (relic weapon component mats) and invulnerable mobs that could one shot almost everyone.

Save for the Tonberry Stalkers, Wanderer's Palace is close to one of the worst examples of what you are talking about.

As for Haukke manor, it isn't the picking up of the keys that is interesting, rather the dungeons level design; the dungeon feels like a sprawling house, not a corridor, regardless of whether you speedrun it or not.

Haukke Manor is a chain of corridors. The only reason it doesn't feels like that to some is due to the the short cuts that open up and the back tracking through the areas you already passed through to get to the next. Players actually complained about the back tracking until using /return to get back to the start became widespread knowledge.