I'm calling it the Epidemic. (This is a rant, if you dont wanna hear it, don't click)

[ArrowAmethyst]

I dont know how it started, and it will likely never end, but over the weekend I leveled from 50-60BLM on another acct, and this morning started leveling DRK which I left off at 34. In three days, I have had 2 good parties. We're talking 12hrs of dungeon running every day for 3 days, partnered with a healer that was making Queue times around 5mins long.
I dont know how many runs we did, but I am 100% certain we only had 2 parties in 3 days where the whole party actually used their job effectively.

I'm calling this rash of TERRIBLE players, "the epidemic". You would think by level 50 folks would have somewhat of a grasp on how to play their jobs, but this clearly isnt the case. Here are just a few of the atrocities we saw this weekend:
-Ninja's not using 'Kiss of the Wasp/Viper' (That's a 20% DPS loss for those that don't play Ninja, and its a set it and forget it skill)
-Ninja's not using 'Huton' (or any other ninjutsu for that matter -- Huton makes you attack 15% faster. It's cast by using either: Jin►Chi►Ten, or Chi►Jin►Ten)
-Bard's who never sing songs (Foe Requiem reduces enemy magic resistance by 10% making mobs take more dmg from attacks spells, Army's Paeon Restores TP, Mage's Ballad restores MP)
-Bard's post lv.52, not using 'Wanderer's Minuet' at all ever
-healers healing in 'Cleric Stance' and wondering why folks kept dying
-Tanks that only focus on one mob in a pack of 3 or more (often during a party with a SMN casting aoe dots and me casting Flare)
-other BLM's who spammed exclusively Fire 3 or only used ice spells
-players in under level gear by 5 or more levels (there was even a tank wearing a level 1 ring in The Vault)

This is by no means a complete list of the atrocities we witnessed in 3 days. It is only the ones I could remember off the top of my head.
If you are doing any of the things listed above, you are part of the problem and are making dungeon runs twice as long and needlessly painful for the rest of the people who have the misfortune of being paired up with you in Duty Finder. If this sounds like you, please go back and read your tooltips and some guides on how to play your job decently. I'm not asking you to go out and be the best DPS that ever lived, but at least TRY.
Believe me when I say, this community isn't naturally toxic and aggressive. We get angry and irritable at these kinds of players because we are sick of putting up with less than mediocrity and we've given up trying to teach the masses who WON'T listen.
If you think I'm talking about you, then do something about it and TRY to be better.


(Feel free to flame me, just dont be surprised if I bite back. Im in a fiesty mood right now.)

[Vincent_Mateus]

What can you do? They don't care. We can't make them care. I know how it feels, if it helps, sorry to hear about your misfortune. I'd get a couple friends to run with. That's the only way it's tolerable for me any longer

[sarehptar]

Not saying there aren't plenty of sub-par players in this game, but... did you, at any point, try talking to these people in a polite and friendly way to get these problems solved?

If you notice an issue, you can reduce the likelihood of it happening to other people by (politely) sharing what you know and improving the community overall.

That will go a lot farther than a call-out post on forums populated in a vast majority by people who are already pretty passionate--and therefore at least slightly more likely--to be better players than your average DF teammate.

[ArrowAmethyst]

Not saying there aren't plenty of sub-par players in this game, but... did you, at any point, try talking to these people in a polite and friendly way to get these problems solved?

If you notice an issue, you can reduce the likelihood of it happening to other people by (politely) sharing what you know and improving the community overall.

That will go a lot farther than a call-out post on forums populated in a vast majority by people who are already pretty passionate--and therefore at least slightly more likely--to be better players than your average DF teammate.

Yes, a thousand times yes. Ive been playing since 1.0 beta (not that that matters - just showing how long Ive been around), and the amount of people I have mentored by now would likely astound even me, but to be honest, Im getting to the point where I JUST DONT CARE ANYMORE. Ive tried, a million times to train people (and yes politely) Some were more receptive than others, most just immediately get defensive and take it the wrong way regardless of how nice you try to be. At any rate, Im tired of it. 90% of the stupidity that goes on in dungeon runs can be solved by players READING THEIR TOOLTIPS. Or failing that "READING GUIDES" that other players have been super kind enough to create so others can maximize on their potential, or compare themselves to.
But in all seriousness, just taking 5-10 mins out of your day to learn what actions (and TRAITS) do and setting them on your tool bar can do wonders!!

[Lunaxia]

We're talking 12hrs of dungeon running every day for 3 days

This is the saddest part.

[ArrowAmethyst]

This is the saddest part.

What's sad about it. My husband and I were both sick, we had nothing better to do.

[sarehptar]

90% of the stupidity that goes on in dungeon runs can be solved by players READING THEIR TOOLTIPS. Or failing that "READING GUIDES"

While I agree, there's nothing you can do to force other people to read tooltips or guides. Some people simply aren't considerate enough of others or aren't aware enough mentally to care about how their "play style" affects the rest of their team, and that's the grab bag you pull from when you use duty finder. Meeting bad players is basically the hallmark of playing online. I definitely get the need to rant sometimes, but posting here on the forums probably isn't going to reach the right group of people to make any difference.

I feel like you could improve the thread by suggesting ways that Square could provide better training for players instead? For example, maybe Hall of the Novice should be extended to include lessons on how to properly gear your class, where gear can be acquired, what stats are important for which jobs, etc.

Likewise, if you're noticing that players aren't using their skills correctly, that might be more of a sign of the game's failure to make it clear to all players how those skills should be utilized. Yes, anyone with two brain cells should be able to figure out how to read a tooltip, but for the masses who for some reason can't, perhaps the job quests could do a better job of forcing players to utilize their new skills in the way they are intended? I mean, giving you a new skill after you complete a quest doesn't help--if players got the move before the quest duty began, the quest duty could be constructed in a way that encouraged them to immediately utilize that skill in a practical setting.

tl;dr: You can't make crap players better via a rant post on forums populated by people who already care about as much for this game as it is possible to care. Making suggestions for in-game solutions would be more effective.

[ArrowAmethyst]

tl;dr: You can't make crap players better via a rant post on forums populated by people who already care about as much for this game as it is possible to care. Making suggestions for in-game solutions would be more effective.

The solution I would start with is for SE to start capping leveling dungeons with gear level requirements similar to other dungeons.
Another would be for them to add NQ accessories of all levels to gear vendors for a price that newer players can actually afford.
They could also have some kind of barrier quests to defeat at certain intervals (ie: 30, 40, 50, 55, etc) before you'd be allowed to progress any further. (The optional level 15 tutorial they added was a step in the right direction, add more of that per role)
There are billions of ideas that have been tossed around that SE could try. That's for SE to decide.

At any rate, I dont care if the bad players ever see this thread, but now that you've mentioned it, I'll just post this in Party chat and leave DF every time I get a mediocre player doing stupid things. Maybe they'll be "aware" enough to actually go read it.

[KisaiTenshi]

If you think I'm talking about you, then do something about it and TRY to be better.

On my server, the entire server was empty everywhere I went except for the Palace of the Dead. Playing Palace of the Dead requires a somewhat different technique.

But none of these complaints have changed since V3.0's release. You will always have players that are not good at their jobs, and it generally comes down to two things:

A) Players don't normally play these classes - Particularly the case with bad tanks, who think it's just like DPS. The entire reason I started doing healer was because in V2.0 that was the only way to get into the Duty finder. DPS was an hour. If your're not good at a class, don't use it for duty finding and instead resort to FATE's and levequests to learn it.

B) Players don't have good enough computers/connections to play these classes. This is particularly true of the 24-man raids, but is also true of all the "extreme" content. DPS can get away with less because they only need to focus on their target. Tanks and Healers get completely overwhelmed. Add into this the typical need for a voice chat or twitch streaming and you create a situation where the connection jitter/recording jitter makes playing/recording the content harder due to tight timing.

Bad Bards exist because you don't have any use for the songs in single player, and likewise healers healing in cleric stance is a side-effect of the game's design for single player.

If the game had been designed so that cleric-stance only worked in outside of a Duty, people would figure out how to use the job correctly in parties (you're the healer, not the tank) but then people would never play healer because it's not fun. That's a catch-22 problem. If you allow the healer to DPS, then everyone will pick it as DPS, if you restrict their DPS, then nobody will pick it and every dungeon will be waiting-for-healer. Your best bet is someone who enjoys playing healer as a healer, and only does the DPS stuff when the Tank and DPS aren't awful.

Like fundamentally, there is no correct way to design a healing class that is fun for both field and dungeon play. So Cleric Stance was the solution for CNJ/WHM, and cross-classing it to SCH/AST gives the same benefits to those jobs. If Cleric Stance didn't exist, then leveling a healer would be a boring slog that could only be done in a party, and people would go "not it" when choosing who has to play healer.

The solution I would start with is for SE to start capping leveling dungeons with gear level requirements similar to other dungeons.
Another would be for them to add NQ accessories of all levels to gear vendors for a price that newer players can actually afford.
They could also have some kind of barrier quests to defeat at certain intervals (ie: 30, 40, 50, 55, etc) before you'd be allowed to progress any further. (The optional level 15 tutorial they added was a step in the right direction, add more of that per role).

That's not going to happen. For a MMORPG to work correctly, the players need to have a hand in how the economy works. If the only way to acquire non-rubbish gear is to play the dungeon, then the easiest fix is to apply a tighter 'ilvl' to the dungeon itself and also take into account the gear durability so that you don't end up finishing a dungeon with a tank who has no tank armor (or broke their tank armor and is wearing DPS armor,which I had once on The Keeper of the Lake, and have video of it.)

Also people genuinely hate gateway quests. Look at how much of a stink people made about having to finish the ARR content to get into the V3.0 area. That's not the right technical approach. I'd suggest using the guildhests for what they were designed for (anyone play these other than bots?) and split these out by job, where they need to get a "passing grade" before the skill is unlocked for field and dungeon use. Once you complete it on one character on that server, you never have to do it again.

[Kosmos992k]

The solution I would start with is for SE to start capping leveling dungeons with gear level requirements similar to other dungeons.
Another would be for them to add NQ accessories of all levels to gear vendors for a price that newer players can actually afford.
They could also have some kind of barrier quests to defeat at certain intervals (ie: 30, 40, 50, 55, etc) before you'd be allowed to progress any further. (The optional level 15 tutorial they added was a step in the right direction, add more of that per role)
There are billions of ideas that have been tossed around that SE could try. That's for SE to decide.

At any rate, I dont care if the bad players ever see this thread, but now that you've mentioned it, I'll just post this in Party chat and leave DF every time I get a mediocre player doing stupid things. Maybe they'll be "aware" enough to actually go read it.

Given that the game showers you with gil at the lower levels onwards, the existing accessories from vendors that are NQ are eminently affordable. Not to mention the fact that about 2 hours of mining and goldsmithing will enable you to make accessories for the first 25-30 levels.

There already are barrier quests in the forms of trials and instances like Steps of faith. Dungeons are level sync'd up until 50 and are actually harder than the ones that follow because of that. Rant and rail all you like, it will do you no good. A more relaxed outlook on life might help you though.