Tank Stances.

[Jhett_Magnum]

Is the reduced damage you deal still needed on tank stances at this point?

Keep the emnity multiplier and the free defense cd, but '86 the damage nerf. I don't think it changes anything tbh.

[Awful]

You don't need tank stance you can run around in an expert/60 dungeon without it all I do is group up all the adds and Spam Abyssal drain while Scourging everything and having Salted Earth down I never lose threat. I don't know what you mean by the 86 damage nerf though, nothing in this game can outright kill a tank from 100-0 in a fast amount of time.

Even in raids tanks are out of their tank stances most of the time the only reason to go back into it is for a tank buster really.

[Jpec07]

You don't need tank stance you can run around in an expert/60 dungeon without it all I do is group up all the adds and Spam Abyssal drain while Scourging everything and having Salted Earth down I never lose threat. I don't know what you mean by the 86 damage nerf though, nothing in this game can outright kill a tank from 100-0 in a fast amount of time.

I promise your healers are swearing when you do this.

[Awful]

I promise your healers are swearing when you do this.

No they don't, I always have a defensive up and Abyssal Drain crit heals me for 1700 normally I haven't had any complaints at all.

[Jpec07]

No they don't, I always have a defensive up and Abyssal Drain crit heals me for 1700 normally I haven't had any complaints at all.

They can't because they're too busy spamming Cure II on you.

Back on topic, though, OP is talking about how, when you have your tank stance on, you do 20% less damage. OP would like to see that number reduced so that your tank stance PPS is the same as your stance-less PPS. I'd personally be okay with a change like that. For most tanks, this might convince them to use their tank stance more often.

[Awful]

They can't because they're too busy spamming Cure II on you.

You're joking right? Do you play Drk at all? You realize that with a Shadowskin and spamming Dark Arts + Abyssal Drain not only makes AoE groups die faster, but actually healing me taking stress off the healer? And if the healer is DPSing while i'm doing this then they have to heal less more DPS > ends the trash faster thus requiring less healing while I can sustain myself and have Sole Survivor up healing me for another 7.5k. But yeah they're totally spamming Cure IIs :P.

And that's all I wanted clarified from the OP, I disagree with increasing the damage in the stance then what's the point in leaving the stance if the damage has been buffed? The only changes really needed are changing Oaths for Paladins because it takes a GCD, same with Drk activating Grit, if all the tanks activated tank stance much like Warriors could then it'd be easier.

There's nothing wrong with not using your tank stance because the good tanks know how to juggle CDs to smooth out damage and increase their own DPS.

[SyzzleSpark]

snip

You are incorrect sir.

Gritless Abyssal Drain hits for about 1.2-1.7K depending on gear/party buffs, 2K+ with a crit. If you're tanking 10 mobs and getting a 1.7K heal per mob every other GCD with a cooldown or two up, a healer that is spamming Cure 2 is bad. You could probably not even pop a cooldown if the healer just throws a regen on you.

Once Blood Price has fallen, you can maintain AoE DPS and hate by using (Blood Weapon) Hard Slash > Syphon Strike > Delirium > (Dark Arts) Abyssal Drain > repeat (similar to low-level GLA/PLD using Fast Blade > Riot Blade > Flash) and supplement this with some of your beefier CDs. Gritless expert dungeons are fast and absolutely doable with minimal healer stress.

[bswpayton]

@Awful

Im gona guess u only run content with your friends cause most df healers can barely heal a tank in tank stance, Ive seen no grit drks, deliverance warriors melt tryin to pull stuff like that with random healers.

[Neela]

You don't need tank stance you can run around in an expert/60 dungeon without it all (...) I never lose threat.

than use your gift and open a workshop for all those potd scrubs lately who never heard of tank stances at all... recommending to take tank stance off these days, just doesn't feel right, we have enough unskilled player around yet. don't feed their incompetence by telling them they would do it right... .____.

edit:

Spam Abyssal drain while Scourging everything and having Salted Earth I never lose threat.

this won't be enough if you ll meet another equal skilled player at all... I lately started to use lp potions... cause it became more or less common that I see 8-9/10 mobs on my enmity bar after every 2nd buffed Deathflare... this is embarrassing... so no pls do not spread this off-tankstance mentality : /

[Awful]

than use your gift and open a workshop for all those potd scrubs lately who never heard of tank stances at all... recommending to take tank stance off these days, just doesn't feel right, we have enough unskilled player around yet. don't feed their incompetence by telling them they would do it right... .____.

edit:


this won't be enough if you ll meet another equal skilled player at all... I lately started to use lp potions... cause it became more or less common that I see 8-9/10 mobs on my enmity bar after every 2nd buffed Deathflare... this is embarrassing... so no pls do not spread this off-tankstance mentality : /

Here's the problem with your comparison; you want people to get better in PoTD when it's probably one of the worst ways to level, if they haven't figured out tank stance or how to tank properly there's not much you can do about that it's a player base problem. I don't recommend to newbies to take of their tank stance that comes with experience and learning the job inside and out if i'm healing and a tanks in tank stance doing pulls I don't care, if i'm tanking I care because i'm the one doing the pulls, the extra DPS etc. You can also do PoTD 1-100 without a tank or even solo so it wasn't made for tanks per se, not to mention players can manipulate floors/mobs/buffs to make up for lack of tank with DPS shocking I know.

About your spreading this "nonsense" look at Syzzles post she did a gigantic pull without Grit on and did she lose threat? No. I even stated that I had a Smn in ilvl 268-269 who had an ilvl 270 book and fully melded Deathflaring and I didn't lose threat once. So you must be doing something wrong so don't blame it on the lack of emnity I stated i've had 0 issues even with a caster heavy group double SMN/ or SMN/BLM/WHM so I would say that this falls on you.

I will reiterate since you think i'm spouting ALL newbies tanks to take tank stance off, no i'm not this is aimed at 60 content as the good tanks know that you can keep threat out of stance 100% of the time this goes for dungeons, raids, EX primals and Alex Savage, you can tank all of Alex Savage out of tank stance and be fine. It's the majority of tanks haven't learned that they can hold threat without tank stance and honestly if you're not comfortable practice, pull everything with your tank stance on, pop a CD, and then spam your AoE/DPS combo.