cant find a dps job in this game that i don't have a problem with

[Steelbreeze]

This here is why you never go full retard folks. Move along, this guy's fat enough already.

[Delorean]

>points out a lot of classes are very similar in terms of design
>actually states reasons why ranged dps is easier than melee DPS and declares preference between the two over it
>is being snarky towards people with the audacity to suggest I am not allowed to have an opinion on game design because I my DPS jobs are not level 60
>is a troll

but you guys say nothing but "you're wrong!" and are deliberately avoiding the topic of discussion. so if i am a troll, what are you? spammers?

Even in 2.0 I only had DPS jobs as an alternative to tanking. My friends quit the game (3 years ago) and don't want to come back because DPS jobs are boring. And one of them is my cousin's fiancé who both played 1.0. And some of you would have the audacity to say that those opinions do not matter because it's a much more serious issue to others than it is to you.

I mean, a lot of us were really excited for FFXIV - many of us tried it, I know a lot of players in my wow warrior community that did. And I also know that a lot of them quit for similar reasons. To try to suggest all of those people's opinions would not matter is more arrogant than anyone posting in this thread could ever accuse me of being.

[magnanimousCynic]

That's it. This Dumpster fire of a thread has been burning so badly that I need to return to this thread (hopefully) one last time.

>actually states reasons why ranged dps is easier than melee DPS and declares preference between the two over it.

After a quick look over all of your posts in this thread, the ONLY "reasons" you gave about Ranged DPS being easy is "lack of liability", which makes it "easier to play". You don't elaborate further than that because you probably don't have any other "reasons" to support your opinion that all ranged dps are lazy.

>is being snarky towards people with the audacity to suggest I am not allowed to have an opinion on game design because I my DPS jobs are not level 60

"Snarkiness" in a complaint thread isn't going to win the hearts of the people on the OF. It just makes you look like a troll.

what else do you call sitting in the back flinging poo at bosses and taking a quarter of the skill it does to play melee DPS?

probably something like "viability" xDl

i always think it's funny when someone comes into a thread and calls you a troll for expressing an opinion that they don't like and they are obviously triggered xD

Do these quotes look like snarkiness to you?

And the reason why people are telling you that your opinion on dps jobs is wrong is because you're basing your opinion on level 50 rotations, when for some classes they drastically change once you get post-50 skills. BLM and SMN are prime examples of this with DRG and BRD being other good examples.

>is a troll

When someone starts their thread with

all ranged dps are weenie hut jrs so that's off the table

People will think you're a troll.



The next time I reply to this thread is when someone gets murdered over it.

[Delorean]

After a quick look over all of your posts in this thread, the ONLY "reasons" you gave about Ranged DPS being easy is "lack of liability", which makes it "easier to play". You don't elaborate further than that because you probably don't have any other "reasons" to support your opinion that all ranged dps are lazy.

By design, ranged DPS do not deal with mechanics as much.

In this genre of gaming, "too many melee dps" is a real thing where as "too many ranged DPS" just isn't ideal. This is because melee DPS with their high mobility and need to always move for positional attacks can cause too much congestion in one area for the Tanks and other melee DPS and can cause a melee heavy composition to lose an exorbitant amount of damage through fatalities or wildly sporadic movement patterns which can result in loss of boss or buff uptimes on top of the latter.

For example, it is easier for all ranged players to strategically avoid mechanics like Titan's weight of the land by all stacking together since they do not need to move anyway so that the mechanic in it's entirety is isolated to one small area instead of potentially being spread out in a wide area, trapping players who will not be able to avoid the mechanic in time.

ranged DPS is the safe choice. it's just so lax by comparison. there is no rush or high risk decision making to playing ranged DPS. So that's definitely one of the appealing things about playing melee DPS. It feels really rewarding when people are fucking everything up and making your job hard to do, but you manage to slip through this tiny crack of open space that is barely even visible and you are still fisting the shit out of that enemy that needs to die and putting in that extra 10%.

For a ranged dps that is as simple as walking out of an aoe. As you could imagine, it is a lot less stimulating.

This is but one example, however.

[ShaneDawn]

By design, ranged DPS do not deal with mechanics as much.

This line of argument is just plain wrong. In fact, in a raid scenario (and often even in regular content), most of the mechanics are pushed onto Ranged (Black Mememage excluding, they get the free pass a lot of the time) and Healers. People basically go out of their way to make it easier for the melee DPS to stick on the boss without having to disengage. Just as an example: the only real "melee" mechanic in the current set of Savage Raids is the timegates, where people usually send a Ninja (+ possibly a second DPS), a Tank and a Healer. Pretty much all the other mechanics in the Raid Tier are handled by Ranged and Healers. Avoiding aoes and cleaves is a job for everyone, and it doesn't suddenly become "complex" on melee. Even in 2.x majority of the mechanics the party had any control over were passed on to the bard and healers to handle; however, bard was really faceroll back then with no cast times or strict timers to watch out for so this kind of separation was "kinda" understandable.

I think all the DPS classes take a vast amount of knowledge and skill to min-max, so I don't like to go into arguments of "my class is harder than yours", but the general consensus by the high-end raiding community is that both Bard and Machinist take the most work out of all the DPS classes to play at their absolute best. If you need statistical evidence, you can see that in FFlogs Bard for example has the biggest difference in average parses when compared to the very best parses. Whether or not that fits into your view of "ranged being easier by design" is irrelevant. It may hold water in other games, but in the current iteration of our DPS classes melee isn't exactly a harder class to perform with.

If we're talking about average-level play in average parties, I'm not even going to go there. Doing the absolute minimum and/or being mediocre is not exactly difficult on any class. As said though, going above and beyond takes knowledge and skill, and that's on any class.

I happen to know what I'm talking about.



"Tanks going Dance-Dance Revolution" is frustrating, true, but that's the tanks' problem to perform their basic duty in an acceptable manner. Same tanks probably pull the boss out of any ground aoes laid by ranged and healers. You're free to either initiate a vote-kick on said tanks or just queue with a friend if that makes it so frustrating. Luckily melees don't lose their combo (as far as I recall) or buffs/debuffs (aside Trick Attack) even if they miss the positional, mostly costing a mere penalty in potency. Which doesn't exactly hurt your rotation or gameplay plan anyways. You're not going to waste gcds waiting for the "Dance-Dance Revolution Tank" to give you the correct positional for anything else except Trick Attack.



I guess your line of thought was that the current iteration of DPS classes don't really appeal to you due to being stale and/or too similar with each other. While this may be worthy of discussion, it would benefit your cause much more to discuss in-depth what do you think is wrong with the current system, why is it wrong and how would you fix it. Derailing your own thread with baseless remarks and the fact that you don't have a single DPS class at lvl 60 doesn't exactly inspire confidence, however.

What kind of changes would you propose to the DPS classes to make them more appealing for you? What kind of concepts would you find thrilling for SAM/RDM?

[Neela]

i mean that's what happens when you play a mobile ranged dps class because you are better suited to deal with things than many other classes and it comes at little to no expense of the raid

that proofs you don't have any idea what you are talking about... mobile range cls' were concepts of ARR - yet tell me which current range dd is still that mobile that mechanics are suited better to deal with in this current state of dps concepts than a random melee dd? now im really interested in your answer - pls go ahead ^^

I think that it is common sense that melee DPS are more of a liability than ranged DPS so they take more awareness to play but what most of this blowback boils down to is people getting upset by the fact someone is saying ranged takes less player ability than melee and the idea that it could be true.

not true. yet again you talk about things you can't judge - it has nothing to do with the likings of a cls over another but about people which just talk bs in the end... and stick to it even more than a couple of others proofed that its just not the way it currently is. in fact like Shane said Brd & Mch are two of the toughest cls to play effectively in the current raid tiers but how should you know that? yeah you can't. sry i forgot that.

if i decide i want a level 60 dps job i will get one. being level 60 is not as important as some of you seem to think it is. it's really not hard to watch a stream, read up on how to use something and take those observations and turn them into experience. i have been doing this a long time and it is the exact same old song and dance every time.

so you are Neo huh? watching a bruce lee documentary will make you to a material arts master or an Air Force pilot hmm? maybe you ll get a slight idea how it could be in the end but you still lack in personal experience... experience which would make this discussion way more earth-grounded.

[Nerisu]

By design, ranged DPS do not deal with mechanics as much.

In casual content, yeah. I'm guilty of not doing most of the mechanics in 24-man raids unless it will cause instant KO or something. It's not the same for savage raids, though.
I don't know how ranged DPS classes work in raids in other games but in this game you don't just "sit in the back flinging poo at bosses".

[Neela]

you just won't get it....

but you guys say nothing but "you're wrong!" and are deliberately avoiding the topic of discussion. so if i am a troll, what are you? spammers?

Even in 2.0 I only had DPS jobs as an alternative to tanking. My friends quit the game (3 years ago) and don't want to come back because DPS jobs are boring. And one of them is my cousin's fiancé who both played 1.0. And some of you would have the audacity to say that those opinions do not matter because it's a much more serious issue to others than it is to you.

I mean, a lot of us were really excited for FFXIV - many of us tried it, I know a lot of players in my wow warrior community that did. And I also know that a lot of them quit for similar reasons. To try to suggest all of those people's opinions would not matter is more arrogant than anyone posting in this thread could ever accuse me of being.

talking about your glamours past is still totally irrelevant - fact is HW DDs are played differently than ARR DDs if you didn't like ARR DDs so far okay your opinion we got that by now - but you don't have any clue about HW DDs so you can't complain about them without even trying - and that is what you should get.

best proof:

By design, ranged DPS do not deal with mechanics as much.

you don't know anything about range dds at all - you wouldn't say that if you would have any exp with MW, Gauss, Echno or Trance....

[Maero]

Ranged do not deal with mechanics, umm black mage uses leylines anywheres and mechanics happen right there, lol
People joke about it alot but it is very true
Level a dps to 60 and you can see for yourself and people may take you more seriously

[Rhymenoserous]

Ranged do not deal with mechanics, umm black mage uses leylines anywheres and mechanics happen right there, lol
People joke about it alot but it is very true
Level a dps to 60 and you can see for yourself and people may take you more seriously

Every single time I press Dreadwyrm trance it is 100% guaranteed that at that moment the boss is going to stop throwing shit at the leylined blm and start throwing shit at me, or two seconds later a melee dps is going to go "Eh fuck it lets mash the limit break now" and kick the boss into an invuln phase. Or I'm going to be the victim of droppy orbs in DS.