How many skills is too many?

[CyrilLucifer]

Around 30 is perfect.

I have 4 full bars (48 slots) if I have my PvP abilities up on AST and that's too much, though admittedly some of them are for Feast callouts and focus targeting.

[Ririta]

more options for us to choose from

It's never a choice.

Anyway, more than 10 is too much.

GW2 has the best system for this kind of combat. One auto attack spell and the rest are cooldowns. Change stance/weapon and you get different spells.

My Elementalist has like 25 spells on 10 buttons.

Back to FFXIV, I don't understand why we need to bind all those skills. For example, Chaos Thrust and True Thrust combos could've been 2 buttons instead of 6. Cleric Stance could change our hotbar to be a DPS one, since we won't be healing when it's active, and won't be DPSing when it's not.

Playing on controller helps but it's still has a rather high learning curve.

[Vhailor]

It's never a choice.

Anyway, more than 10 is too much.

GW2 has the best system for this kind of combat. One auto attack spell and the rest are cooldowns. Change stance/weapon and you get different spells.

GW2 is a distinctly different game. Its depth of combat comes from skills paired with constant movement; FFXIV doesn't have this attribute. If we had only 10 abilities in FFXIV, the game would be incredibly boring.

Back to FFXIV, I don't understand why we need to bind all those skills. For example, Chaos Thrust and True Thrust combos could've been 2 buttons instead of 6. Cleric Stance could change our hotbar to be a DPS one, since we won't be healing when it's active, and won't be DPSing when it's not.

Chaos Thrust and True Thrust, as combos, would be boring and devoid of any semblance of skill. That's why they aren't two buttons. Lengthening the combo requires players to maintain proper positioning whilst dodging ground AoE attacks and engaging attacks; a single button for a combo would either not involve this balancing act, or would be too rigid.

Cleric's Stance also can't just 'change our hotbar' because sometimes, WHMs DO heal whilst in Cleric's Stance. It's not ideal, but every so often, something bad happens right after Cleric's Stance is brought up. At that point, it's better to toss off a weak heal than none at all (or Benediction if need be).

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As to the OP's question, I think there are 'too many' skills if certain abilities become effectively ignored for the sake of button management. The exact number varies based on the game system. FFXI, for instance, could handle far more abilities than FFXIV because its combat was slower-paced, thereby improving the ability management side of things. GW2, being so active with regards to movement, can't handle as many abilities as FFXIV can. For XIV itself, I'd peg the number of manageable skills at around 45-50. If it starts approaching 60, I think that will be 'too much'.

[Shurrikhan]

GW2 is a distinctly different game. Its depth of combat comes from skills paired with constant movement; FFXIV doesn't have this attribute. If we had only 10 abilities in FFXIV, the game would be incredibly boring.

While true, shouldn't that point out how little FFXIV has going on underneath its skill arsenals to actually make them interesting. Is that not a more important place to start?

Chaos Thrust and True Thrust, as combos, would be boring and devoid of any semblance of skill. That's why they aren't two buttons. Lengthening the combo requires players to maintain proper positioning whilst dodging ground AoE attacks and engaging attacks; a single button for a combo would either not involve this balancing act, or would be too rigid.

How is there any difference apart from button count (bloat) in an entirely GCD-locked game between a 3-part skill auto-activating its next step within the same decision on the following GCD vs. you queuing each of three parts for, effectively, the same skill (same decision) each with a different key? There is no difference in length. There is no difference in positioning. One is simply automatically "macroed" for you as to spare you a total of 4 (6 as of HW) keys. You still have to reposition, very rapidly in the case of F&C/WT, before each GCD refreshes.

Cleric's Stance also can't just 'change our hotbar' because sometimes, WHMs DO heal whilst in Cleric's Stance. It's not ideal, but every so often, something bad happens right after Cleric's Stance is brought up. At that point, it's better to toss off a weak heal than none at all (or Benediction if need be).

That's certainly the case, but no system has ever been developed or refused over nonessentials. Even now, I hear as many claims as point out its weak-heal necessity that Cleric Stance ought either to be punishing enough to be a real concern, or removed outright as to save Conjurers/Healers that key-space. Unless the difference between 0% healing potency and 30% healing potency over the 5-second window would prevent the use of Cleric Stance entirely, then the ability to toss out weak heals is not worth the button count. That said, as the two arsenal sets that would otherwise be separated are far from even, and neither half would have nearly the key count of an unsplit arsenal class (e.g. any DPS or tank), truly splitting the keys into an offensive and curative set would feel... off, to say the least. Moreover, we may yet see Cleric Stance become something unique to Conjurer, that may or may not (effectively) be a mere set-toggle, while Scholar and Astrologian each take on their own stance mechanic, if any.

[Rhysati]

It's never a choice.

Anyway, more than 10 is too much.

GW2 has the best system for this kind of combat. One auto attack spell and the rest are cooldowns. Change stance/weapon and you get different spells.

My Elementalist has like 25 spells on 10 buttons.

Back to FFXIV, I don't understand why we need to bind all those skills. For example, Chaos Thrust and True Thrust combos could've been 2 buttons instead of 6. Cleric Stance could change our hotbar to be a DPS one, since we won't be healing when it's active, and won't be DPSing when it's not.

Playing on controller helps but it's still has a rather high learning curve.

I could not possibly disagree more. I find GW2's combat to be boring and stale with very little choices in my skills. Half of the builds basically require you to spam maybe one or two abilities with all the rest being situational at best.

If you are an elementalist, then yes that is different as they have a ton of abilities on any build. But my warrior for instance? Spam 1 and 2. Switch to other set if I need rang and spam 1. /yawn

[Remus]

30 like DRG right now... That's not including PVP skills by the way. Needs to be a lot less.

[Kaethra]

5-6 active skills.
1-3 cooldowns.
2-4 situationals.

That's just what goes on the hotbar. What I'd like to see with combos is make them actual combos where the abilities change based on what you used prior. Sort of like Ninja mudras. You can easily double or triple the number of skills that way without using up 2-3 hotbars.

[bardaboo]

5-6 active skills.
1-3 cooldowns.
2-4 situationals..

Still Sounds better than every drg in DF.

[CaptainLagbeard]

When 3 hotbars consisting of 12 buttons each (36 total) no longer are enough.

[Shougun]

Around our current number is good, I do have room for at least 5 more abilities, like 10 more depending on what happens to PvP. But I worry about controller players so shouldn't use PC space as a space goal lol.

I liked a suggestion made in another thread where we start to see traits more. I can imagine these empowering/transforming and adding layers to our current tools while leaving us with similar buttons. (Not just adds 10 seconds to buff but traits that add combos and such as well, like a morph to a spell).

However I would like to see some goof/lore for fun spells/options. Like mage in WoW or WHM in FFXI with their teleports. Eagle vision, Eye demon, and other spells. Perhaps can go over the regular line with these as you don't really need to hot bar them. Like just for fun I think dragoons should be able to jump extra high- maybe it can be a special mount unlock lol.