AOE combo skills

[Ferth]

Would also be nice if AoE weapon skills didn't cost 2-3x the TP of single target weapon skills. The increased cost is completely unnecessary given the reduced potency per target of AoE skills.

[Jetstream_Fox]

Bards had this back in 2.0 and it was a tp drain, iirc it went wide volley -> rain of death -> quick nock. You had a % chance that if WV hit, RoD would be free, and there was also a % chance RoD would make QN free, so in some cases you could use 3 aoe skills at the cost of one. But the number of times that happened was to far in between to really matter and it didn't even grant any increased potency either, so it was kind of pointless to do your aoe rotation.

[Shurrikhan]

Would also be nice if AoE weapon skills didn't cost 2-3x the TP of single target weapon skills. The increased cost is completely unnecessary given the reduced potency per target of AoE skills.

I'd understand that if it were split damage or the like, but it at even were it half the average potency of a ST combo, that'd only take some 2 targets hit to equal out, or 4 targets hit to be equally TP efficient... when most mob stacks are 6+ targets.

Personally I'd like to see more crossover in either direction.

But, animation variance aside, the only "advantage" to an AoE combo is that it has to ramp up, meaning that it's less weavable, or ends up being used in stricter intervals. Wait, "advantage"?

[Silverquick]

I don't think it matters much. Like any boss with no mechanics to do, every trash pack is just deal damage and maybe dodge a ground AoE here and there. Hitting one button over and over or a sequence of 12 buttons isn't any more interesting when you're not actually interacting with the trash pack in any way other than dealing damage and moving out of ground AoEs. Complicating or creating rotations doesn't address the root problem which is we have trash packs meant to be pulled from roadblock to roadblock and spammed down instead of fewer but more interesting encounters. So long as it's going to be a braindead affair meant to just take up our time and pad the dungeon length, I'd rather press less buttons.

Actually I suspect a lot of tanks actually like it.

Its a lot more interesting to be holding off an Army while doing it and popping the occasional cooldown, while dodging and holding agro on an entire army of mobs.

Literally gives a whole new meaning to fighting off an army.

Sure makes it a lot more interesting than just some standard 3 mob spread with no effort probably a yawn fest for a tank. Unless they're just trying to take it easy for a while.

But throw in 6-12 and it gets a heck of a lot more challenging, and he's bobbing and weaving and blowing a cooldown here and there, and still keeping agro on a literal army

[NovaLevossida]

Actually I suspect a lot of tanks actually like it.

Its a lot more interesting to be holding off an Army while doing it and popping the occasional cooldown, while dodging and holding agro on an entire army of mobs.

Literally gives a whole new meaning to fighting off an army.

Speaking as a tank, there's functionally no difference between fighting 6 mobs vs. 12 mobs if both scenarios are having me pop cooldowns, spam AoE, etc. The latter just makes me move a bit more, possibly. My point was there's nothing interesting about trash. That's why it's called trash. I'd rather have fewer encounters that are overall more difficult and engaging than just play Katamari Damacy and everyone just mindlessly spams their AoEs.

[Canadane]

Remember in 1.0 when all abilities had am AOE variant?
Well I guess that was before combos were implemented, but it was a sweet idea.

[Uhm]

Thought about that too and I'm all for it.

[Silverquick]

Speaking as a tank, there's functionally no difference between fighting 6 mobs vs. 12 mobs if both scenarios are having me pop cooldowns, spam AoE, etc. The latter just makes me move a bit more, possibly. My point was there's nothing interesting about trash. That's why it's called trash. I'd rather have fewer encounters that are overall more difficult and engaging than just play Katamari Damacy and everyone just mindlessly spams their AoEs.

Well then its time to go over the differences in jobs.
For the Summoner this IS our bag... mowing down large swaths of enemies with AoEs. The rotation I just gave you above... is one of them, though it varies per the Summoner... here's how it breaks down...

Shadowflare 25 potency per tick, (Bio 40 potency per tick, Miasma 35 potency per tick, Bio II 35 potency per tick). So Tri-Disaster is actually 110 potency. Total package here with all of them is 135 potency per tick. Bane spreads them to all other targets. (Mind you the BLM Fire II is only 100 Potency, and still only 130 with 3 fire stacks)

So...

1st AoE
Painflare (200 Potency)
(Due to pet interface you have to do this while waiting for Contagion to kick in, and account for Painflare's 10 second Recast timer)

2nd AoE
Bane Spreading DoTs to all other Targets (135 Potency per tick)

3th AoE
DoTs (135 Potency per tick)
Garuda Aerial Blast (250 Potency)
For 385 potency

4th Aoe
DoTs (135 Potency per tick)
Painflare (200 Potency)
For 335 Potency

5th AoE
DoTs (135 Potency per tick)
Deathflare/Teraflare (440 Potency)
For 575 potency AoE

So we're looking at
200 + 135 + 385 + 335 + 575.... Potency in AoEs per target... No other Job can do this much AoE damage that fast and there's still 135 AoE DoT ticking away after that. This is the strong suit of the Summoner...

So where else are we going to use this? A Boss Mob?......What a waste.

The kicker is... we only have 3 stacks of Aetherflow to do this with. And only one Deathflare... once this is used, we're spent, and can't do any more for 1 minute until Aetherflow CD is up. Which is just about how long it takes for you as the tank to pull Two to Three Mob spawn points just in time for us to be ready again to wipe them all out.

And if you have a Summoner in your group who is NOT doing this when you're pulling a major pack of mobs... you need to either educate him... or kick him...

[NovaLevossida]

I'm aware of how SMN plays. I'm just saying that if you're doing the same thing on every trash pack and the trash packs don't actually interact with you except the rare ground AoE to cause you to move, the complexity or simplicity of AoE doesn't make that trash pack any more interesting than a training dummy.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm aware of how SMN plays. I'm just saying that if you're doing the same thing on every trash pack and the trash packs don't actually interact with you except the rare ground AoE to cause you to move, the complexity or simplicity of AoE doesn't make that trash pack any more interesting than a training dummy.

Is any entirely enmity-locked enemy in this game any more interesting than a training dummy? Unless they're charging about AND you're playing melee, I don't see what's to differentiate. Are we including raid AoEs as the boss? If so, then that could be a tiny plus to the engagement levels that enemy brings.

Let's face it—DPS generally just don't do anything in this game except input long-term completion metrics. And if they were to, you'd probably get more players condemning the fall of good old fashioned trinity values or chastising the insurgence of action-based nuanced combat than praising any increase in personal challenge. (Because if a raid mechanic tells everyone to stack with giant arrows, that's a suitable, challenging trinity-based mechanic (despite being cross-role), but if a DPS were to kite non-invincible enemies about or make good use of CCs rather than relying always on enmity/mitigation specialists, that'd be heresy.)