[dev1251] Penalty for using market search feature

[Bongeh1986]

removing currency from an economy ensures that inflation stays low, currently lots of plays have millions and millions of gil, new players who start with nothing will find it extremely difficult to buy things if everyone in the higher ranks is willing to pay hundreds of thousands of gil for fairly run of the mill items.

It's good game design, and it's not forced, if you can be bothered to walk into a new zone, you don't have to pay it, but for plays with tonnes of gil, they'll use it. Removing gil from the game. There needs to be a lot more ways for players to spend gil and take it out of the players hands to enable health cashflow though the economy.

EDIT: oh yeah, In conclusion, I'm in favour of the tax.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

You can just save the 5% by running to the vendor.

There is absolutely no reason why this is a bad thing.

It is a terrible thing because the point was to make it where you didn't have to run to your retainer everytime, yet they charge you now for using a new feature that was supposed to make the crappy Market Wards & retainer system more bearable . Also we really didn't need another useless Gil sink at this point in time, unfortunately I will still be using the system because of the convenience of it but overall it really uncalled for imo.

removing currency from an economy ensures that inflation stays low, currently lots of plays have millions and millions of gil, new players who start with nothing will find it extremely difficult to buy things if everyone in the higher ranks is willing to pay hundreds of thousands of gil for fairly run of the mill items.

It's good game design, and it's not forced, if you can be bothered to walk into a new zone, you don't have to pay it, but for plays with tonnes of gil, they'll use it. Removing gil from the game. There needs to be a lot more ways for players to spend gil and take it out of the players hands to enable health cashflow though the economy.

EDIT: oh yeah, In conclusion, I'm in favour of the tax.

What you say is normal under most circumstances but it won't stop anything in this game, 5% is just enough to tick people off but not enough to make the people who are going the jack the prices up not think anything about it. So it really punishes poor players more than anything. The problem with the charge is there already a charge on the items to place them in the wards then there is a charge to buy an item quickly? Really. The design of that or blatantly horrible and should be removed before it is even implemented.

[Zezlar]

Having money go to nothing serves no real purpose.

Oh it has a massive purpose. What happens when Gil can only come into the game rather than out? There will be massive inflation (costs go way up) and that Gil you earn will be useless. That's what would happen if there was no Gil sinks. Square messed up bad at the start of this game. I was level 10 and I had already made my first million from doing Guild Leves and vendoring. I'm one person so imagine how much went in for all those people who are extremists. I have a good portion of cash now that i'm just sitting on because I have no purpose for it but I earned that through mining.

They need to make sure Gil retains a value. I don't want to be paying 200k+ for a level 5 item.

[grandm]

Oh it has a massive purpose. What happens when Gil can only come into the game rather than out? There will be massive inflation (costs go way up) and that Gil you earn will be useless. That's what would happen if there was no Gil sinks. Square messed up bad at the start of this game. I was level 10 and I had already made my first million from doing Guild Leves and vendoring. I'm one person so imagine how much went in for all those people who are extremists. I have a good portion of cash now that i'm just sitting on because I have no purpose for it but I earned that through mining.

They need to make sure Gil retains a value. I don't want to be paying 200k+ for a level 5 item.

more important a newbie can't pay 200k for a lv 5 item. gil sinks are needed, i really don't see why ppl don't understand this

[NoctisUmbra]

Wow... still going huh?

I suppose we need to start meeting the quota again:

"There is too much Gil in the game"
"Nothing to buy I have XXX million Gil"
"Money in this game is worthless"
"Money is so easy to get, they practically give it away"
etc...


Implement 5,000 gil charge for repairs
Implement 5,000 gil charge for airship
Implement 5% (max 4,000) gil charge for instant market ward transactions



WHY YOU GIL SINK MY SHIP!#!)$

[Masamune1004]

I suppose a few more couldn't hurt...

"There is too much Gil in the game"
"Nothing to buy I have XXX million Gil"
"Money in this game is worthless"
"Money is so easy to get, they practically give it away"
etc...


Implement 5,000 gil charge for repairs
Implement 5,000 gil charge for airship
Implement 5% (max 4,000) gil charge for instant market ward transactions



WHY YOU GIL SINK MY SHIP!#!)$

[WHS]

I don't see the need for a back end fee of 5% when your already getting a up front fee from the seller which is fair to the cost of doing business. A back end fee is misleading and not reasonable. I am astonished you even came up with this idea in the first place. Only reason I can see for using the feature would be to avoid the unecessary hitching and lagging when going to and from the market wards directly. If you fixed the servers laggyness then I wouldn't mind avoiding the fee by going to the market wards directly. So in a sense you punish us who don't want or need lag in the game by adding a surcharge fee. That is just great. Not a show stopper but definitely a step in the wrong direction.

[NoctisUmbra]

3rd time's the charm.

"There is too much Gil in the game"
"Nothing to buy I have XXX million Gil"
"Money in this game is worthless"
"Money is so easy to get, they practically give it away"
etc...


Implement 5,000 gil charge for repairs
Implement 5,000 gil charge for airship
Implement 5% (max 4,000) gil charge for instant market ward transactions



WHY YOU GIL SINK MY SHIP!#!)$

[Llewelyn]

Oh it has a massive purpose. What happens when Gil can only come into the game rather than out? There will be massive inflation (costs go way up) and that Gil you earn will be useless. That's what would happen if there was no Gil sinks. Square messed up bad at the start of this game. I was level 10 and I had already made my first million from doing Guild Leves and vendoring.

Virtual economies generally mirror real economies. Real economies don't have "gil sinks" where money just "disappears" into thin air. The problem with XIV was that it gave out gil way too easily via leves, and so nothing seemed expensive. Gil sinks haven't changed that one bit.

Adding a 5% tax (with a 4k limit) isn't going to address the inflation issue when leves are still giving out gil by the tens of thousands, and there's other ways of quickly amassing gil. The problem isn't that money isn't being taken out of the system; the problem is new money is being printed faster than its being deprecated.

In one sense, yes, gil sinks are needed. But not arbitrarily. There should be a game-mechanic based reason for it beyond "Oh yeah, this saves you 15 seconds." Airships are a good example. Another example would be NPC vendors which sold stuff you couldn't get from players.

To quote another style based on the "gold sink" wiki page someone else posted, here's another unintrusive idea:

Another improvement to active sinking is to couple it to a feedback control system. Such systems can be designed to maintain a set of prices or asset ratios, and if properly set up can add a great deal of price stability to a virtual economy; one example of this can be found in the MMO MUD Alter Aeon.[2] The feedback control system used in Alter Aeon works by tracking the total amount of money in the game in order to dynamically adjust drop rates and shop prices. Players with more than 1 million in currency are taxed for 2% of the money they own over that limit. This keeps the economy permanently stable. The peaks in the total amount of in-game currency do not vary more than 10% in a time period of 2 years.

NPC prices could be raised/lowered depending on how much of an item gets sold in any window. Like a real economy. So if you start unloading a bunch of crap, you'll get less gil than if you sell it slowly. Extend that to other areas of the game, and suddenly you're not being given ridiculous surcharges; suddenly it's more like a real-world supply-demand economy, except NPC prices are the "gil sink" and it's totally invisible.

[grandm]

Virtual economies generally mirror real economies. Real economies don't have "gil sinks" where money just "disappears" into thin air.

well this is not strictly true. in a real economy our money does kinda disappear, we pay taxes which goes into the treasury. (true the government uses this to invest in schools, roads, etc) but this is money we never see as physical money again. so it does mirror a gil sink. however this is a game not real life. and gil sinks are needed all MMOs have gil sinks "i wonder if there is a reason for that?"