[Spoiler] Support Papalymo for 4.0!

[Vidu]

However, Papalymo's death doesn't signify anything that important to the narrative or the plot. At most it is the catalyst which convinces Lyse to finally start living her life for herself, but once she has begun to do so, there is no point to Papalymo's continued death. I feel its important when the death of character -has- that impact on the plot and the narrative, such as the death of Haurchefant and Ysayle during Heavensward did. Or even the death of characters like Ilberd. These deaths meant something, and they affected the story. Papalymo's death pales in comparison. Its wasted potential. He wasn't developed enough, and we didn't have enough investment in him emotionally to be strongly affected by his death.

First I'd like to point out that someone was affected enough by his death to make this thread and ask to change it.
Wether his death was a good plot decision or not matters little by now, if you ask me - hes dead now and even if it was a bad idea rewriting the whole thing and basically repeating the Nanamo-mistake wouldnt improve that.

I'd also liked to point out my personal theory on why he died: As hurtful as that may be for 1.0 people I'm under the impression our current dev team is trying their best to get rid off the old Scions. Seeing how non of those were really well developed characters (Vexander is so kind to prove my point here: Papalymo wasnt developed enough), they're basically having two options: Improve the characters or replace them with their own ones. I can fully understand and support the devs rather bringing their own characters in now - basically killing off Yda aswell and replacing her with an original character was a pretty clever move in that regard.
So even if Papalymos death didnt affect a lot of use emotionally, it fullfilled a purpose: It removed a character that they didnt thought would fit well into the story anymore, from it and made room for new, better developed characters. (And at the same time it served as a trigger to get rid off a second old character)

While I normally agree that the death of a character needs to have signficance, its even more important to me that once a character is dead, they stay dead - magic revives only cheapen their death in the first place.

[Ririta]

Just let the little shite die so Lyse can have her character development.

Her "reveal" sucked so much that I lost hope for that character.

When all's said and done she's like "oh I'm actually not who you think I am" and everyone is like "yeah we knew"... why even do that if it won't matter. Doesn't helps that her personality got even worse.

[Vexander]

While I normally agree that the death of a character needs to have signficance, its even more important to me that once a character is dead, they stay dead - magic revives only cheapen their death in the first place.

One could argue we have no definitive proof of Papalymo's death, but I think that wouldn't matter to anyone anymore. We are told he died, and we are given to accept this viewpoint without having witnessed the death personally, unlike the situation with Haurchefant, Ysayle, and especially, Nanamo. We quite literally saw her die. She clutched at her throat, gasped for air, and perished at our feet. Her death was shown to be a painful and traumatic experience. Its why I'm really hoping she truly did die and the current Sultana is that Thorne Dynasty Princess that Lolorito discovered. We know Lolorito wants to maintain the status quo since its the most profitable, so I can see the switch being done to do just that. Nanamo's death is one I think needs to be affirmed, and hopefully at some point it will be confirmed that she did die and the current Sultana is a puppet installed by Lolorito. Better than a puppet. As a living member of the Thorne Dynasty, she is the rightful heir to the throne no less. All that's really needed is for Lolorito to wait until the right time, when it is profitable to reveal that information.

By contrast Papalymo's death is... not very well done. We know that he performed a spell which is -supposed- to kill the caster, except that in the only other case the spell was performed the caster did not die. I don't think anyone should be surprised if it turns out he's still alive, because we don't have the same hard facts and evidence of our own senses we've had with other character deaths. I also hope he is still alive, because I was looking forward to -seeing- him develop.

If there's suddenly a lalafell main character in Stormblood, I'd put even odds on it being Papalymo.

As a last thought, Papalymo compares himself considerably to Louisoix as he's preparing to perform the Sealing Ritual. I think there's foreshadowing to support him surviving the ordeal in that light, just as Louisoix survived. Just, instead of taking all that Aether into himself to kill a primal, Papalymo simply survived and went into hiding. Or passed out and was captured by the Garleans. Again, I really don't think anyone should be surprised if Papalymo is revealed to still be alive in Stormblood, and its my hope that he will be.

[Atlaworks]

Her "reveal" sucked so much that I lost hope for that character.

When all's said and done she's like "oh I'm actually not who you think I am" and everyone is like "yeah we knew"... why even do that if it won't matter. Doesn't helps that her personality got even worse.

Yeah but you hate everything.

[Vidu]

Her "reveal" sucked so much that I lost hope for that character.

When all's said and done she's like "oh I'm actually not who you think I am" and everyone is like "yeah we knew"... why even do that if it won't matter. Doesn't helps that her personality got even worse.

It does matter though - its not so much a "reveal" as an introduction of a new character. I'm pretty sure that for the better part of 2.X and maybe even 3.X "Lyse" was actually Yda - as in: not even the devs themself knew that she would turn out to be a different character. Just like the other Scions Yda is a 1.0 "relic" - designed by a different team and, I'm sorry to say that, with very little character. Instead of somehow re-working that character the current dev-team decided not to kill her off but to turn her into a new character, that they're going to have total freedom with.
Her personalty didnt get "worse" - her personality is just about to be revealed to us in the first place. That part of the story consisted of two deaths actually - both Yda and Papalymo died. We just got an insta-replacement for Yda.

Now, it doesnt matter to me ofc wether you like that character or not, but you just decided to dislike a character you dont even know yet... thats pretty shortsighted to me, but whatever floats your boat I guess. Personally I didnt care much for Yda and I doubt that I will care much for Lyse, but I'm willing to give her a chance to prove herself and her character in the upcoming narrative.

One could argue we have no definitive proof of Papalymo's death, but I think that wouldn't matter to anyone anymore. We are told he died, and we are given to accept this viewpoint without having witnessed the death personally, unlike the situation with Haurchefant, Ysayle, and especially, Nanamo.

Louisoix only survived in the form of a primal though... so maybe we'll get to see a lalafell-phönix one day!

Joke aside: There is no reason to bring him back, we got plenty of evidence for his death and, as I said, it makes a lot of sense to me for the dev-team to remove the old 1.0-characters to replace them with their own creations.

[Ririta]

Yeah but you hate everything.

Nah

but you just decided to dislike a character you dont even know yet...

The first and only thing we got from her is a sob story.

At least let me know the character before trying to get my sympathy. Ysayle did it much better.

[Kallera]

Revive Papalymo? are you kidding me?

Kill Lyse, or Thancred, That'll do too.

[NaesakiAshwell]

So many people wanting the Scions to be killed off, such savagery :c

[Dualgunner]

So many people wanting the Scions to be killed off, such savagery :c

Right?

I'm less on the "Let's kill Scions" train and more "If you killed it, let it stay dead" train.

[Kallera]

Right?

I'm less on the "Let's kill Scions" train and more "If you killed it, let it stay dead" train.

Same, though Thancred and Lyse I can do without.