Thread: [Spoiler] Support Papalymo for 4.0!

It would be incredibly silly to have yet another character return from the dead, especially when 2.55 was heavily criticised for doing exactly that with almost every single character involved. It also serves to cheapen the sense of danger and impact of death to the point where everybody will just start rolling their eyes when a character 'dies' because there will be a chance they can return and if they don't then people will just kick up a fuss and demand their favourite character(s) to be brought back because other characters were.

It was bad enough that they killed everyone off just prior to 3.0 only to SURPRISE THEY ALL SURVIVED later. Let's not keep doing that same stupid thing. It cheapens deaths as a plot device and ruins the story.

Originally Posted by Felis

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I have not finished the 2nd part of the 3.5 story yet, but is Minfilia already back from her travel to the other world?

Honestly said. When they first announced her as Mother basically... and then kept her around. I kept asking myself.. "What has she REALLY done in the story? Every other character did something with me. Even fight? I havent seen Minfilia fight... yet she leads us...?"


As for her coming back from the world. I keep thinking she went to the world that was lost known as 1.0 and that is what she is working to fix.

Maybe we get a "Wings of the Goddess" type expansion where we return to the doomed world of the past and work to solve hat.

Originally Posted by Felis

But the only person with a dead scene at the end of 2.5 was the Sultana.
I don't know why people thought they died instead of just went missing.

Because it was plainly designed to make you think that. For instance, Y'shtola talks about being entombed with Thancred for all eternity. This is clearly a suggestion that they will not make it out alive. Yda and Papalymo are clearly exhausted at the end and say they're being overwhelmed. They keep putting on a brave face, but it's obvious they can't keep going for much longer. Despite this, there's no sign of an end to the enemy reinforcements. Minfilia makes a huge speech about how she's basically staying behind to make sure you can escape. This is clearly sacrificial talk.

A couple of them surviving would have been no big deal. It could have even been a pleasant surprise and another twist. However, everyone surviving (unless you don't want to count Minfilia as Word of the Mother)? It's pretty lame. They built up that entire end, which was really good and a bold move for a video game, just to immediately turn around and undo it. What's worse, it was basically an expectation that everyone had survived from the moment you found Y'shtola.

People who point out the Sultana's, "Death," are entirely valid to do so. That was a plot moving demise with significant, far-reaching implications for the narrative of the game. I too hope she actually died and what we have now is that, 'remnant of the Thorne dynasty,' that was mentioned before.

However, Papalymo's death doesn't signify anything that important to the narrative or the plot. At most it is the catalyst which convinces Lyse to finally start living her life for herself, but once she has begun to do so, there is no point to Papalymo's continued death. I feel its important when the death of character -has- that impact on the plot and the narrative, such as the death of Haurchefant and Ysayle during Heavensward did. Or even the death of characters like Ilberd. These deaths meant something, and they affected the story. Papalymo's death pales in comparison. Its wasted potential. He wasn't developed enough, and we didn't have enough investment in him emotionally to be strongly affected by his death.

Originally Posted by Vexander

However, Papalymo's death doesn't signify anything that important to the narrative or the plot. At most it is the catalyst which convinces Lyse to finally start living her life for herself, but once she has begun to do so, there is no point to Papalymo's continued death. I feel its important when the death of character -has- that impact on the plot and the narrative, such as the death of Haurchefant and Ysayle during Heavensward did. Or even the death of characters like Ilberd. These deaths meant something, and they affected the story. Papalymo's death pales in comparison. Its wasted potential. He wasn't developed enough, and we didn't have enough investment in him emotionally to be strongly affected by his death.

First I'd like to point out that someone was affected enough by his death to make this thread and ask to change it.
Wether his death was a good plot decision or not matters little by now, if you ask me - hes dead now and even if it was a bad idea rewriting the whole thing and basically repeating the Nanamo-mistake wouldnt improve that.

I'd also liked to point out my personal theory on why he died: As hurtful as that may be for 1.0 people I'm under the impression our current dev team is trying their best to get rid off the old Scions. Seeing how non of those were really well developed characters (Vexander is so kind to prove my point here: Papalymo wasnt developed enough), they're basically having two options: Improve the characters or replace them with their own ones. I can fully understand and support the devs rather bringing their own characters in now - basically killing off Yda aswell and replacing her with an original character was a pretty clever move in that regard.
So even if Papalymos death didnt affect a lot of use emotionally, it fullfilled a purpose: It removed a character that they didnt thought would fit well into the story anymore, from it and made room for new, better developed characters. (And at the same time it served as a trigger to get rid off a second old character)

While I normally agree that the death of a character needs to have signficance, its even more important to me that once a character is dead, they stay dead - magic revives only cheapen their death in the first place.