new dungeons vs old dungeons

[Silverquick]

If the devs stick some things in chests that the playerbase really wanted, like I dunno, the whole reason they're probably there, (tomestones), dungeon vouchers for some random item like PotD's or straight-up materia, then maybe then side corridors and optional areas would see frequent activity.

Back in 1.2x, the dungeons dropped several chests after the boss pending what prerequisites your group achieved. If I remember correctly, one chest only appeared if you opened every side-chest in the dungeon. There's an idea right there.

I admit,

This would go a long ways towards that. I did check out the videos for the old dungeons and how they worked and I cannot deny that concept of bonus chests depending on how many optional objectives you achieved, along with the appropriate number of tomestones for those optional encounters would go a long ways to helping this matter.

I mean when you can gain an extra 50 tomestones in a dungeon that normally only gives 70 for just going the main route, you can expect a lot more deviation and reasons for people to explore the side areas.

[RopeDrink]

Haukke Manor HM is the best example I can think of.

COUGH - Brayflox Longstop - COUGH.

They certainly haven't given up on the idea, just limited it to chests being visibly a walk away - enough for a stray player to pick them up while their tank is being all 'must zerg and pick up three packs'. In comparison, places like Brayflox encourage the light exploration, seeing as saving goblins (essentially a sub-task) provides chests, while others are very well hidden in their own side-rooms that you are highly unlikely to go to during a clear. Decided to solo it about 8 times to gather the Battlemage Set for an alt (as well as re-do a Hunting log after a GC transfer) and it seems that you can save 3 Goblins (3 Chests + 1 for the first drake you kill after first boss), along with (can't remember if it's two or three) extra chests at the lake, and one (with a hidden Coerl that is tougher than the average trash) guarding a chest at the end which provides class-specific green-rings.

That's 3 guaranteed dungeon drops, 1 ring chest, and 6-7 regular chests (which have a chance of becoming silver chests). I have 1200'ish hours in this game and it was only at the weekend I noticed this, because every group during my levelling days were just chomping at the bit to complete it ASAP. Undersized, you can rush from A to B in about 6.40/7.20mins and snag quite a lot of 31-32 gear for alts (or just piledrive them into your Seal collection), and barely anyone made any effort to capitalize on this back in my day. Some of the later ones have optional rooms or hidden alcoves and crevices that hold chests, but the 9/10 liklihood is they'll be skipped. Don't get me wrong, when it comes to the lower dungeons, I don't want to spend all day max-clearing it, but adding some appeal (extra XP would be an example incentive for, say, mapping a dungeon per visit [preferably without 20 tonnes of trash in the way]) could be good for actual levellers, seeing as chests are largely ignored.

[Acidblood]

COUGH - Brayflox Longstop - COUGH.

When ARR launched most groups did do the optional content in Brayflox (and other dungeons)... but then most people were still levelling at that point, so the extra XP, and chance at good gear (few players had good crafters back then), was welcome.

The problem now is that levelling is so fast (with the biggest reward coming from finishing the dungeon) that taking the time to get a bit of extra XP per run, or a slight upgrade on gear (which is now easy to buy / craft), is rarely worth it.

And when it comes to the new 'expert' dungeons, no one needs XP (level capped), and the iLvl of the gear is already 2 patches old (at best it is OK for less played jobs, or seals), so is it really any wonder that everyone takes the path of least resistance to the only thing of any real value (i.e. tomes). If the optional content was rewarding for the time spent (i.e. better tomes per hour, a chance at relevant iLvl gear, etc.), with a difficultly level to match, then you would see a lot more groups at least attempting it.

[RokkuEkkusu]

I think the question is this:

Are the rewards from the chests in optional rooms worth it?

If not, might as well keep things simple and keep the dungeon design the way it is in Heavensward to appease the majority who like to speed run the dungeons and get them cleared as soon as possible.

[Catboi]

Tam Tara Deepcroft and Toto Rak.. never again. Unless I get tomes.

[Cyglaive]

I agree. Going forward I hope they'd consider making dungeons have side rooms and maybe even optional bosses. As a tank main, running in a straight line until you can't go any further, waiting for the mobs to die(rinse and repeat)started to get really boring early on in Heavensward. I'm hopping they start to add variety and cool offshoots or things to explore or interact with.

I understand that offshoots need to be rewarding by providing optional loot, currency, or some other reward meaningful enough for players to care about doing them. Otherwise it'll just be a race to the end regardless of how many optional things there are to explore. It's a balancing act, but going into the game's second expansion players are eventually going to get tired of the same dungeon design and demand something different, even just slightly, so that things stay fresh. In terms of optional bosses, the FF series is the king at providing them, so this shouldn't really be against their design philosophy.

[Gumbercules]

ppl want out of them as soon as possible so its hard to justify the extra "rooms" look at how tam tara was during alpha and people were mad it was a dungeon that took 30 ish mins XD (and was mildly challenging)

Open dungeons in wow tend to still result in "linear" progression and are also more prone to toxic behavior though, I used to like zul farrak and its event like design though, but i can't even tell you how much of that is just nostalgia. During legion there is that one dungeon that has the water boss at end and you have to run around an open area to get to the bosses, but that one I see alot of rage quitting when there are new people involved. (or I should say used to see, havent played legion in like 5 months now)

[Tint]

ppl want out of them as soon as possible [...]

me too, because they are too easy, boring, way to linear and there is nothing exciting to loot.

but i guess the normal dungeons will stay like they are. however, i really hope they will improve the deep dungeons. especially keep the speedrunners out of them by removing the exp or tie the exp gain to a full clear bonus.

[Okamimaru]

I've been running the 50 and under dungeons solo lately, not for loots but just to wander around and look at all the details they put into the dungeons... compared to the ARR dungeons places like Antitower feel like they kinda just decided that because people just speed run things that dungeon design matters less...

[Maero]

Dungeons certainly do not feel like they used to, while they of course increase in scale i would love more exploring, but alas the community has it so that we do not
Hidden rooms with optional bosses would be great