Level 50 skills advice

[Hasrat]

Hey look, a crafter not asking for some generic boring rotation!

Gotten my crafters to 50 and having a bit of a pause before advancing to HW (eventually), and looking for a few pointers as I try to figure out how best to utilize these new skills with my old techniques.

So, first thing I'm noticing, the Brand of ______ skills are kinda clogging up cross-class abilities now; are they ever particularly useful at this stage? I don't think I've seen any end-ARR crafting that needs them, and I get the impression that by using all the more useful skills, I won't really miss the lower efficiency even if I there are any, maybe?

Actual skills:

Comfort Zone. Obviously I've seen this all over while checking things out. This seems like the skill to have up at all times? Unless I'm getting low on CP and don't have the time to wait for the recharge. But, near as I can tell, other than that, never a reason not to use?

Piece by Piece. Straightforward 45 CP to finish a craft. Sounds maybe useful if I guess I don't have the durability for anything more and I guess absolutely need those 3 turns to finish it? Idk. This one sounds a bit on the useless side, unless there are some really hard crafts somewhere that this will be my best option for progress. But much like the Brand skills, I can probably get away without it?
Actually, could it sort of act like a replacement for the Brands? Does it ignore elemental affinity? That could be cool. Still not very useful, but maybe a little cool.

Ingenuity (1 and 2). Literally never found a use for these. They do sorta sound like they could be useful, but it's just not very clear what "lowering recipe level" actually does while crafting. No idea how best to utilize this anywhere. Is it useful for improving quality, or progress?

Byregot's Blessing. This one seems a bit weird for me. A bit situational. There are times when I need the bit of extra CP from Rumination. And obviously I don't want to blow my Inner Quiet too early. So far, I've been looking at this as my Excellent skill. As long as that doesn't pop too early, can make some massive progress that way. I suppose I could also be using this when I feel like I've got quality close enough that it would finish off, but I'd hate to guess wrong and still be short and also no Inner Quiet so slower gains, and also need to balance that with any CP I might need to finish progress. I feel like keeping this skill is good, but I haven't figured out where it best fits in.

Reclaim. Ehhhh. At this level, definitely feels like a waste of a cross-class slot.

Waste Not 2. Basically +40 durability. But only if you're using solely Touch or Synthesis skills. This feels a bit lossy compared to Manipulation or even Master's Mend. I never really even used the Waste Not 1 unless I let durability get too low and needed a little longer to finish.

Careful Synthesis 2. Straightforward replacement of the first skill which I basically never need again. At this point I could probably be getting away with using better Synthesis skills, but, I do like the reliability.

Innovation. This one feels a little tricky. I don't know if I could ever fit it into the 40 material crafting without wasting a stack. Crafting bigger things, maybe. This feels like it's best held back until you've got a few Inner Quiet stacks already, to buff the buff. But I also have trouble sometimes getting all my other buffs to line up just right to give me 3 clear turns, and I suppose I shouldn't worry too much if I lose out on any ToT usage, the bonus Control on top of a Good would probably make up for it. Like Byregot's, another one that seems smart to have, but not necessarily used for every craft.



Any tips for what to do with some of these that I might not have thought of? If it matters at all, so far I've been using the Inner Quiet-Steady Hand II-Hasty Touch-(Tricks of the Trade) method with pretty good results. But with the 1- and 2-star crafting I'm hitting, just want to be sure I'm not wasting some of my skills that could be helping more than I realize.

[Silverbane]

Any tips for what to do with some of these (cross-class skills) that I might not have thought of? If it matters at all, so far I've been using the Inner Quiet-Steady Hand II-Hasty Touch-(Tricks of the Trade) method with pretty good results.

My advice is based on L60 crafting: I didn't spend much time at L50 and as a L60 crafters, that L50 stuff is cake. So not everyitnhg I say may apply to your situation.

Piece-by-Piece doesn't work like you think: each time you use it, it gives you one-third of the remaining difficulty as progress. So, if your craft is, say, 810 difficulty, the first PbP gives you 810/3 = 270 progress, leaving you 540 to go, and the second PbP gives you 540/3 = 180 progress, leaving you 360 to go. The third PbP would give only 360/3 = 120 progress, leaving you 240 to go. Sad truth is, you can't practically finish the craft with just PbP. It's still really useful, though.

Ingenuity makes a big difference in progress for three and four star crafts, but it's not a must-have in the rotations most people use.

Byregot's Blessing is a must-have for high level crafting. It's usually the very last Quality-improving step in a craft.

Waste Not 2 is very CP efficient, it gets used a lot. Sequences like "SH2 WN2 HastyTouch(HT)x4 SH2 HTx3" are pretty commonly used at L60: seven HastyTouches for 35 durability and 148CP.

The progress skill Rapid Synthesis (ARM 15, 250% percent progress, 50% success rate before buffing) is favored by people who like to get things done fast and don't mind a little risk.

[Hasrat]

Ahh, I should've expected that with Piece by Piece. Makes more sense. So, definitely best to use early on, until other synthesis skills are better. I can see that working out.

WN2, I can see how it's efficient and all, but, idk. Suppose it's probably the quicker method. Good for a long string of Normals, or just generally ignoring condition. That one's tricky for me to see which technique feels better for me.

Byregot. Do most high-end crafters just sort of know how much Quality they need to be at (and IQ stacks) before using it? I definitely see it being a big time saver. I think it'll just take me a while to get a feel for when it's enough to finish 100%.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

Crafting is simpler than you may think. In a nutshell, work on Progress until your next Careful Synthesis 2 would finish the job, then work on Quality. Add as much as you can, using CP in the best manner possible, making sure to save 96 (or 99) CP for the point you are down to 20 Durability. At that point, Steady Hand (or SH2), Great Strides, Innovation, Byregot's Blessing, Careful Synthesis 2. That is conditional, however - at any point after the SH that you get Excellent, hit BB immediately (and continue on from where I said Byregot's Blessing). If you have a GOOD, then instead of hitting Innovation, hit BB. This is because of how strong the various moves are relative to the conditions.

The Brands are not useful at level 50 crafting, not that I recall. There are higher level (level 54?) skills that buff the Brands for 5 moves and then cannot be used again, and the buffed Brands are of limited use still. Generally speaking, you'll be using Rapid Synthesis, Careful Synthesis 2, and Piece by Piece as your primary Progress moves, which one(s) depends upon exactly what you are doing, how much Progress you need, and how much Craftsmanship you have (no point in spending the 15 CP on PBP if it gets you less Progress than a CS2, for example). However, you want to save most of your CP for two things : Durability restore, and 100% Touches.

The bigger you bump your IQ stack, the more effective BB will be. So, spending 18 CP to turn Hasty Touch into Basic Touch can be valuable. However, you also need the Durability, so using Waste Not, Waste Not 2 (which I personally do not use), Manipulation, and Master's Mend 2 to get you that extra Durability helps a ton. Just be sure that you have SH2 up when making most, if not all, of your Touches. At 53 (I think) you'll get an awesome skill that really helps to emphasize saving some CP for HT->BT conversions, as the move adds an extra IQ stack but is otherwise just like a Basic Touch, but only usable on Good/Excellent.

Once you got Byregot's, you should have started to wean yourself off of Rumination. Byregot's is just too important. The best use for Rumination at this point is to get you some extra CP so you can Reclaim, and that's only if things are going badly (a bunch of failed HT's, for example). Personally, I cannot spare the cross class slots for both Rumination and Reclaim ...

Comfort Zone : use as long as you are going to be able to draw the craft out at least 9 of the 10 charges. If not, it is a waste of CP.
Innovation : unless you get a Good/Excellent, be sure to use this to help bump BB. Its also the only thing you can do to improve Quality moves once IQ has reached 11. Not really necessary to use during a craft, though it can help. My testing has shown that it actually provides a greater cumulative benefit (assuming all 3 Touches land) earlier on than later; this surprised me as I'd expected the benefit to remain the same regardless of the IQ stack.

[cgbspender]

There is some more data about control gain / CP recovery with Rumination versus IQ stacks here. It's a bit advanced but the pictures are crystal clear.

If I remember correctly, Byregot's potency is 400% (as opposed to a "touch" 100%), and exponentially increased by the amount of control you reached (=IQ stacks)

Part 1 : https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ing_mechanics/
Part 2 : https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ics_part_deux/

Note that these datas are a couple of years old, and some of them no longer apply. Most of them still do, however.

[Caimie_Tsukino]

Hey look, a crafter not asking for some generic boring rotation!

*thumbs up* Finally!

So, first thing I'm noticing, the Brand of ______ skills are kinda clogging up cross-class abilities now; are they ever particularly useful at this stage? I don't think I've seen any end-ARR crafting that needs them, and I get the impression that by using all the more useful skills, I won't really miss the lower efficiency even if I there are any, maybe?

They're not useful at all from lvl 1 to 50. But beyond 50, they sometimes can do interesting things. Even when you're working on an unaspected (non-elemental) item, Ingen2 + Name of xxx + Brand of xxx gives huge amounts of progress. Most of the 35 durab items can be done in 1 shot like this. I never used them very much, but they can be useful at times. The reason I never used them much, is because not every class have these elemental names + brands. If you're too used to using these, then it's a pain when you use a class that doesn't have it (you can equip them as cross class skills, but it'll sacrifice 2 spots, which is a big deal). Personally, I find "Ingen2 + Careful Syn II" or "Ingen2 + Standard Syn" to be more commonly used in my rotation. Rapid Syn is pretty strong too, but due to its low fidelity, most of us have gradually ditched this skill for something else.

Comfort Zone. Obviously I've seen this all over while checking things out. This seems like the skill to have up at all times? Unless I'm getting low on CP and don't have the time to wait for the recharge. But, near as I can tell, other than that, never a reason not to use?

When you try to set up a 1-button macro for something, you have plenty of CP, but you only have 15 actions to work with, then sometimes not using this can allow you to add one more line of action, such as a touch... which in turn gives a lot more power to the final Byregot's Blessing.

Piece by Piece. Straightforward 45 CP to finish a craft. Sounds maybe useful if I guess I don't have the durability for anything more and I guess absolutely need those 3 turns to finish it? Idk. This one sounds a bit on the useless side, unless there are some really hard crafts somewhere that this will be my best option for progress. But much like the Brand skills, I can probably get away without it?

Silverbane already explained this above. It's an almost-essential skill to have. You will see how useful it is when you start playing with Heavensward 1* to 4* recipes.

Ingenuity (1 and 2). Literally never found a use for these. They do sorta sound like they could be useful, but it's just not very clear what "lowering recipe level" actually does while crafting. No idea how best to utilize this anywhere. Is it useful for improving quality, or progress?

Ingen1 is rather weak. But Ingen2 works wonders post level 50. It's super powerful in helping progress, and it also slightly helps with quality. Silverbane has already explained this too.

Byregot's Blessing. This one seems a bit weird for me. A bit situational. There are times when I need the bit of extra CP from Rumination. And obviously I don't want to blow my Inner Quiet too early. So far, I've been looking at this as my Excellent skill. As long as that doesn't pop too early, can make some massive progress that way. I suppose I could also be using this when I feel like I've got quality close enough that it would finish off, but I'd hate to guess wrong and still be short and also no Inner Quiet so slower gains, and also need to balance that with any CP I might need to finish progress. I feel like keeping this skill is good, but I haven't figured out where it best fits in.

This is the "Kamehameha" (google this if you don't know what this is) of crafting. The only time that you would use Rumination over Byregot is if you're soooo low leveled that you can only afford to reach IQ3 or fewer IQ stacks. Otherwise, one should always use Byregot's Blessing. The way to use this is to (1) always pair it up with Great Strides (unless you got an Excellent condition, which, you just press it directly), (2) always have Steady Hand or Steady Hand II to make it 100% secure, (3) when ever available, buff it up with Innovation/Ingen2 (but skip these if you got a Good condition).

The "magic of Byregot's Blessing" is that, even though you may seem to be only reaching less than half the quality bar, and with an HQ rate of something like 18%, if you have a huge IQ stack and with proper buffs on your final Blessing, you will instantly shoot the quality bar to max with this single action.

I extracted the following data from my old crafting guide (which you can find by simply googling "FFXIV crafting"). They may give you some ideas on how the quality thingy works, and how Byregot works.

Reclaim. Ehhhh. At this level, definitely feels like a waste of a cross-class slot.

You don't need this unless your mats cost over a million... but it WILL happen to you... soon!

Waste Not 2. Basically +40 durability. But only if you're using solely Touch or Synthesis skills. This feels a bit lossy compared to Manipulation or even Master's Mend. I never really even used the Waste Not 1 unless I let durability get too low and needed a little longer to finish.

Waste Not is actually one of my favorites. Its advantages come from its low CP cost and flexibility. It allows you to take 1 Trick of Trade in the middle without wasting any durability (does not apply to 35 durab items). Waste Not 2 is just way too inflexible when it comes to taking Trick of Trades. But WN2 is very powerful for macros, which Trick of Trade is not used.

Innovation. This one feels a little tricky. I don't know if I could ever fit it into the 40 material crafting without wasting a stack. Crafting bigger things, maybe. This feels like it's best held back until you've got a few Inner Quiet stacks already, to buff the buff. But I also have trouble sometimes getting all my other buffs to line up just right to give me 3 clear turns, and I suppose I shouldn't worry too much if I lose out on any ToT usage, the bonus Control on top of a Good would probably make up for it. Like Byregot's, another one that seems smart to have, but not necessarily used for every craft.

Innov is usually NOT a skill which you use multiple times during a rotation. It's usually planted in the final Byregot's phase. It can either be just buffing the Byregot's Blessing, or it can be used to buff a touch before the Great Strides+Byregot as well. Either way, you won't be taking any Trick of Trades in the middle of it. If you're powering through a easy item though, you may use it multiple times to buff a series of Great Strides+Advanced Touches. It is one of the quickest methods to increase quality while burning CP.

If you'd like to read a bit more about these different level 50 cross class skills, you can visit Chapter 10 of my old crafting guide. It's possible you might pick up something new. I have also listed some nice examples of how to utilize them.

[cgbspender]

such amazing data I didn't know you had worked on this, Caimie. Beautiful !

[Caimie_Tsukino]

such amazing data I didn't know you had worked on this, Caimie. Beautiful !

Thanks!

[Hasrat]

Good tips on pairing Innovation with Byregot. And Great Strides, another skill that has seen zero use thus far.

I think what I need to look at now is changing my approach slightly. Up until now I've been focusing all of my first moves on Quality, pushing as far as I can, and then going for Progress. And that's often why I would need Rumination and/or Waste Not, just for the times that I waited too long for synthesis and need an extra step or two.

But maybe it's time to swap to the "one synthesis away from finishing" method so I can blow everything on Quality without worrying. Think it might still take some time to get a good feel for how far I need to get before I'm confident Byregot's will get me to 100%. Seems like something best learned from time and experience.

[Gemina]

Just going to answer your questions. Sorry if already mentioned by others.

So, first thing I'm noticing, the Brand of ______ skills are kinda clogging up cross-class abilities now; are they ever particularly useful at this stage? I don't think I've seen any end-ARR crafting that needs them, and I get the impression that by using all the more useful skills, I won't really miss the lower efficiency even if I there are any, maybe?

Leave those skills off of your bars until you get a recipe that actually requires it. Until then, don't waste your cross skill slots on them, and when a recipe that requires it comes around, swap it with your least useful cross class skill.

Actual skills:

Comfort Zone. Obviously I've seen this all over while checking things out. This seems like the skill to have up at all times? Unless I'm getting low on CP and don't have the time to wait for the recharge. But, near as I can tell, other than that, never a reason not to use?

You definitely only want to use it when you can utilize all of its stacks. Basically look at comfort zone as +14CP as that is what's returned to you after absorbing the initial CP cost. This means you should basically start your rotation with it always when performing difficult crafts, or at the very least, before you start using CP.

Piece by Piece. Straightforward 45 CP to finish a craft. Sounds maybe useful if I guess I don't have the durability for anything more and I guess absolutely need those 3 turns to finish it? Idk. This one sounds a bit on the useless side, unless there are some really hard crafts somewhere that this will be my best option for progress. But much like the Brand skills, I can probably get away without it?
Actually, could it sort of act like a replacement for the Brands? Does it ignore elemental affinity? That could be cool. Still not very useful, but maybe a little cool.

Two non-specialist abilities increase progress by 33%: PbP and Muscle Memory. The thing about MM is you can only use it at step 1 of a synthesis, but is 100% success rate, while PbP can be used at any point with a reduced success rate. Remember to read the tool tips. It increases remaining progress by 33%. So it is the most useful at your initial progress increase. If you use it after, there is a high chance the progress will be even less than a careful synthesis 1. I cannot tell you if it ignores elemental affinity as I've never tried.

Ingenuity (1 and 2). Literally never found a use for these. They do sorta sound like they could be useful, but it's just not very clear what "lowering recipe level" actually does while crafting. No idea how best to utilize this anywhere. Is it useful for improving quality, or progress?

For this, I am going to task you with something. Actually three. Pick something to craft that is currently one level above yours and right down the progress from Careful Synthesis II. Then I would like for you to do it again with the same item when you are the same level as the recipe. Then one more time when you are one level above it. Make sure you use the same equipment during these crafts. You will notice a SIGNIFICANT increase in progress when you are one level above the recipe, and this is what Ingenuity 1 and 2 are for. Basically ingenuity 1 for same level, and ingenuity 2 for recipes higher than your current level. The less progresses it takes to complete a synthesis, the more durability you can spend towards quality.

Byregot's Blessing. This one seems a bit weird for me. A bit situational. There are times when I need the bit of extra CP from Rumination. And obviously I don't want to blow my Inner Quiet too early. So far, I've been looking at this as my Excellent skill. As long as that doesn't pop too early, can make some massive progress that way. I suppose I could also be using this when I feel like I've got quality close enough that it would finish off, but I'd hate to guess wrong and still be short and also no Inner Quiet so slower gains, and also need to balance that with any CP I might need to finish progress. I feel like keeping this skill is good, but I haven't figured out where it best fits in.

BB is your ace card. It also stands for bread n' butter. That's exactly what it is. With enough stacks of inner quite, BB can take your quality to 100% from a very low number, and even lower if you get a modifier from 'good' or 'excellent' status. Basically, you need at least steady hand 1 up and 56 CP to use both Great Strides (32CP) and BB (24CP) combo to finish your quality with enough durability to finish the synthesis. This is why it is so important to get inner quit up at the start or near start of your craft.

Reclaim. Ehhhh. At this level, definitely feels like a waste of a cross-class slot.

Sometimes the decision is made to purposely botch a synthesis. Typically this decision is made when you have valuable mats, and nothing short of an HQ craft is acceptable. Anytime you are using expendable mats, you can forego crossing reclaim. However, when the important ones come around, you will be very happy to have this. Cross this skill when that time comes, and use it when you have a streak of failures that make HQ next to impossible.

Waste Not 2. Basically +40 durability. But only if you're using solely Touch or Synthesis skills. This feels a bit lossy compared to Manipulation or even Master's Mend. I never really even used the Waste Not 1 unless I let durability get too low and needed a little longer to finish.

Another crafter will have to answer this for you. What I can say is Waste Not and Waste Not 2 are kind of commitment skills. Meaning that when you use them, getting good/excellent condition procs will force you to make a decision to increase quality/progress, or sacrifice it in favor of CP. This can be stressing unless you commit to using all of its stacks towards quality/progress. The reason why I don't use WN2 is because of the longer duration of this stress.

Careful Synthesis 2. Straightforward replacement of the first skill which I basically never need again. At this point I could probably be getting away with using better Synthesis skills, but, I do like the reliability.

Yup!

Innovation. This one feels a little tricky. I don't know if I could ever fit it into the 40 material crafting without wasting a stack. Crafting bigger things, maybe. This feels like it's best held back until you've got a few Inner Quiet stacks already, to buff the buff. But I also have trouble sometimes getting all my other buffs to line up just right to give me 3 clear turns, and I suppose I shouldn't worry too much if I lose out on any ToT usage, the bonus Control on top of a Good would probably make up for it. Like Byregot's, another one that seems smart to have, but not necessarily used for every craft.

You are correct, it is a little tricky. There are multiple ways this skill can be used, and each of them requires an abundance of CP otherwise that CP is better spent else where. I can tell you that the only time I really use it is in the middle of my GS+BB combo. If I will still have enough CP to use BB, I will use Innovation to 'fish' for a good/excellent proc. If I don't get it, at least it still has a modifier, albeit a weaker one.

Any tips for what to do with some of these that I might not have thought of? If it matters at all, so far I've been using the Inner Quiet-Steady Hand II-Hasty Touch-(Tricks of the Trade) method with pretty good results. But with the 1- and 2-star crafting I'm hitting, just want to be sure I'm not wasting some of my skills that could be helping more than I realize.

It will be important to use these skills in combination when performing difficult crafts, and this is when people start seeking out rotations, but really all one really needs to know is how the skills work (read those tooltips), and using freehand crafting to determine the next best skill to use based on the current situation. This will get you the most success throughout your crafting career.

Hope this helps, and good luck out there!