Thread: 4.0 specialization

After reviewing an unofficial translation of the latest letter by gamerescape question and answer 15 addressed specialist and they said it will get enhanced. I've heard from other ppl saying it will enhance the functions of the regular/cross class skills..... so I'm here to speculate on what enhancements and philosophy I'd like to see implemented. And discuss among us our issues with the current system.

First off for those that completely hate the concept itself and want it abolished while i feel where You maybe coming from....we know it's not going away (anytime soon) so let's leave those comments out of the thread please. But for those that thinks current system sucks...tell us why and how you hope it going to be addressed.

RNG has it's place in crafting and that absolutely will never go away!! However to marginalize it's impact we get stats and I hope specialization!!

Currently you need 2 favorable conditions to even START to unlock specialist potential
(note: innovative touch is immediately accessible but if you only have use of one then it's most potent to get a proc right before BB.)
However even with delineation favorable conditions are not guaranteed.....now if delineation was a free ability then that gamble would be niche!! You spend CP hoping to get CP bk and/or stronger progression/touches... but delineation is not free and while it's cheap it can't be traded so each person has to sink time to gain scrolls.... which doesn't at all lend well to mass crafting.

I would like to see delineation be made a free skill that guarantee 2 procs and can only be used once. So it would be a CP lost of 6 if you ToT both procs. Also reduce it from 8 steps to 4 and keep it RNG on if it procs on step 1 or step 2 first.

OR keep it a purchased skill but guarantee all 4 procs. We need some clear reward for taking the extra time to craft collectibles for each scroll. At least guarantee 3 procs!!

However if they do not make delineation free something else needs to be done so specialist stands on its own two feet!!

My suggestions is whistle while you work be made to start at 9 stacks and cost 20 CP (elsewhere I suggested it be automatic at startup and cost no cp...but that's too OP esp if it starts at 9 stacks....)

This way RNG will be your friend or your enemy. The question will always be "how many steps can I afford before I'm satisfied??" This is a friendly mini game that has great upside-if you predict correctly- but won't completely destroy the syn if you guess wrongly.

Second it gives you greater access to nym wheel trained and hand procs.

Nym wheel is already best cp/durability in game so no changes need there esp if you reduce the cost of Whistle from 36 to 20.

Trained hand however I'd like to see it gain an additional buff or reduction in CP (from 32 to 28).

The specialist BB version is missing something..... it's not cheap enough to where there could be a case where you'd wanna chance using it then building IQ to use a regular BB . Also if used with rumination 6 IQs isn't really any CP worth anything.

I suggest making it potent than Regular BB. Regular BB max out at 300% they should make specialist BB max out at 400% still be 70% success but cost 26 cp and require a favorable proc. And of course use up all IQs.

My thinking is it's not meant to displace regular BB but be a functional save from not getting 11 IQs. Also it would make a better macro savior for getting an excellent proc prior to regular BB.

I feel that any changes that they make should be to better realize the original intention of the specialist system: to allow single class end game crafters to HQ master crafts reliably. IIRC, one of the goals was to bring crafting back to its 2.0 state where end game crafts could be done using one class at 50 and low level cross class abilities only.

These changes might work for omni-crafters, but single class crafters would be rather adversely affected if their specialist Byregot’s ability was reliant on the availability of a good/excellent proc. Single class specialist crafting is also contingent on using satisfaction and the heart ability for CP restores (no CZ, no maker’s mark/FS phase, etc.) so you wouldn’t want to limit the use of whistle or the heart ability unless you make other significant changes to offset this.

It’s difficult to boost the current spec abilities in such a way to greatly help single class crafters without breaking the balance for omni-crafters. I believe that they have to either replace all spec abilities with skills that are roughly equivalent to cross class (clearly confirmed that this won’t be happening) or have the specialist soul lock out high level cross class abilities. This would allow any crafter to access specialist recipes while being forced to use the new powered up (and hopefully fixed) single class specialist crafting design.

As it currently stands, major improvements are needed for the specialist system to cater to single class crafters. But the same isn’t true for omni-crafters (who can simply not use the spec abilities) unless the difficulty of recipes is increased significantly. At the current balance, anyone with a full set of cross class abilities, a robust strategy, and enough CP can generally face-roll anything from all NQ mats. RNG can also be mitigated using only a handful of HQ components.

NQs will invariably happen due to bad RNG if you’re always crafting final products from 0 starting quality but the one or two NQ products that you get out of 20-30 synths is worth the time saved. If a crafter has a bit of extra time, simply HQing the easy level 50 mats on 4* crafts will eliminate most of the NQ risk.

You're right that the original original intent of specializations was to lessen the impact of not having access to all the crafters skills. Elsewhere I have agreed with the idea of specializations (like jobs) lock certain cross class abilities out!!

However SE never intended for specialists to displace omni crafters but to compare to omni crafters.

Still SE found out the ppl complaining the most are the omni crafters (which a huge chunk of the crafting community have 3+ max crafting classes). And the omni are demanding that specialist not only prop up those with 1 or 2 classes but also be EVEN more rewarding to those that sink the time to unlock them all.

If specialist locks out certain cross classes I'd like them to return to each class having a perk (bsm made things overall easier; ltw reduce it durability loss; alc control it's CP; gsm stronger touch effects; wvr safe progress; arm strong progress; cul risky yet cheap touches and second chances....etc) this would give each path to HQ a different feel and destroy our macro system lol!!

Currently this system if you want fast and reliable HQs you are mandated to cross class HT, CZ, CS2, BB (often crossed are ing2, maker's, muscle, innovations RS and PbP )

Originally Posted by Silverbane

snipp

Spc system already offer more stats and abilities not available to regular classes. So it's already like a job (DOW or DOM).

However SE has this dilemma where they don't want to get rid of Omni crafters, nor do they want omni to be the norm. The original idea of limiting each player to 3 Spc lended well to rewarding the crafter with 1-3 classes maxed and it encouraged players to work together-- interdependence.

But then Omni crafters like yourself...said I don't wanna work with anybody else I want to be self-sustaining.... Well SE came up with a GREAT solution that keeps the majority of 1-3 crafter players interdependent while allowing the more dedicated self-sufficient omni crafters "contentment"; they made RED SCRIPTS uncapped!!! Now you can swap between spc at will BUT it will cost you a grind (not a terribly long grind; you can macro 480 RED'S in 15min??).

Again the issue with giving omni crafters complete access is it will marginalize the crafters that can only make 1 to 2 items needed in a several part end-product synthesis. And that is not the same as crafters that have access to gatherer classes; the difference is crafters with gatherers still have to spend a decent amount of TIME gathering the mats needed for each synthesis they want to make; while omni crafter merely spend an extra 30sec to 2min crafting an additional step. The time spent on maxing the classes on crafters (currently) rewards exponentially as compared to the reward for maxing all you gatherers.

let me give a tangible example of the difference.

Let's consider what it takes to make an ilv 190 crafting necklace: Ironworks Necklace of Crafting.

Now I have all the gathering classes so I can save the gil and farm all the mats. HOWEVER my only saving is GIL not at all time! I actually have to invest a HUGE amount of time for the gil I plan on saving. Let's start with luminous fibers. the glass for luminous can be retrieved 1 per day? by moogle quest or you can farm ilv180 gear to desyn; however both methods are extremely time consuming (i.e. gil saved= significant time spent). Moving onto the light-kiss sand needed we have another gil saved=significant time spent (unless you're lucky). Also now consider the timed unspoiled nodes (wattle bark, meteorite,.....more gil saved equaling significant time spent.)

So far all the "benefits" of having my own gathering classes still cost me something significant to take "advantage" of my gathering classes--TIME. Now lets move into the crafting portion.

Remember I want to make an ilv 190 crafting necklace and I have all raw mats that took me significant time to gather. I need to make camphor, lum. fiber, eikon leather, and treated cam. lumber. That's a total of 4 different syn needed BEFORE I can attempt my necklace (so 5 syn. if you include the necklace itself). Let's be funny and say each step takes 3min...lulz; so when its all said and done i sent 15min crafting this one necklace.

Let's now compare. When it came to obtaining raw mats the gil I saved resulted in significant time investment in gathering the mats myself. HOwever when it came to omni crafting not only did I save gil in crafting it myself, but the cost of crafting it myself was 3min per additional step!!! BEING FUNNY I SAID IT TAKES 3min per step. But it doesn't take 3min to hq any of these steps and most decent crafters can NQ these intermediate mats in 30 sec and still get the HQ necklace; so in reality more like a total time of 5-6min everything!!!. There is no comparison that Omni crafting rewards FAAAARRRR more in time and gil saved than having gatherers & a few crafters leveled.

Hence why specialist system wanted to level the playing field, reducing each player to a trio-crafter (AND yesss this punished omni crafters!!!) However moving forward omni crafters will no longer be severely punished BUT INSTEAD will be required more TIME in order to take "advantage" of having access to all the crafting class by being required to spend an additional 15min making RED SCRIPTS to swap crafting crystals. Under this new system Omni crafters will still have the perk of self-sufficiency; it just wont be as crippling to the rest of the non-omni crafting community.