Let's Talk Benchmark and Skills~

[Jpec07]

Me at the "new" DRK skill

Part of me wonders if Cover is becoming a job skill, actually. It looks like we might be seeing some skill crossover between different jobs (I'm almost positive I saw RDM casting some form of Aero.

[Khalithar]

WAR is getting a gap closer, which is equal times cool and terrible. It's starting to feel like all tanks will have more or less the same skills.

I can sort of get your point here but you're looking at it the wrong way. A gap closer should be seen the same as Provoke, i.e. a basic tanking tool that all tanks should have. In SWTOR for example 2 of the tanks have the exact same type of gap closer move, but just because they have that doesn't matter as all their other moves are fairly unique and they have very different tanking styles.

If all tanks perform equally well by doing the same things, what's the point in there being 3 tanks?

If all tanks perform equally well in all scenarios, it means you select the one you like the most ergo having three tanks is good because they play and carry out their roles differently. Again, a gap closer move, while I can understand the homogenization sentiment, is a basic tanking tool that should be baseline across the board. Just because drk and war now have one doesn't suddenly mean the classes are the same.

[Starkbeaumont]

imo the holy cast is actually the result of what the whm did to the group. kinda like radiant shield. while that thing that appears when the pld finishs the cast is the new pld skill.

that drk shield is kinda nice as it gives you something as an OT. there is also qzuite some content whre healers have to shield a prey target. this skill will allow a drk to do it.

Nin skill is weird. i kinda hope it has a higher cd so i won't have to see that frog too often...

[CosmicKirby]

If all tanks perform equally well in all scenarios, it means you select the one you like the most ergo having three tanks is good because they play and carry out their roles differently. Again, a gap closer move, while I can understand the homogenization sentiment, is a basic tanking tool that should be baseline across the board. Just because drk and war now have one doesn't suddenly mean the classes are the same.

The gap closer doesn't have to be literally the same thing though.

In WoW, you have Warriors, who charge, a basic gap closer.
You have monks, who can either do a short roll/dash in one direct, or do a longer flying click, both are aimed manually and don't lock on, still the same 'gap closer' effect.
Death Knights pull targets TOWARDS them, not themselves towards targets.


This is what makes difference between classes interesting. We already have this in some areas. Living Dead, Holmgang, and Hallowed Ground all 'ostensibly' do the same thing, they make a tank impossible to kill for a short time, but there's nuances to each.

Contrast this with the worse case scenario, two classes have an ability that is nearly identical, but one is flat out better. Life Surge and Reassemble BOTH make your next weaponskill crit. However, Life surge, has 10 seconds shorter of a cool down, and helps the DRG by restoring health, it's just better at everything than an otherwise identical skill, what's the point? What's important is that classes feel different enough to justify having so many to choose from.

The only homogenization we 'should' be getting is through the Cross-class system, a system DESIGNED to let you carry over abilities to use them on other classes. Somewhat boring, but necessary abilities such as a taunt are already handled in this matter, assuming they don't do something interesting with the WAR charge compared to DRK's Lunge, again, what's the point?

[Khalithar]

WoW stuff.

This is what makes difference between classes interesting.

The only homogenization we 'should' be getting is through the Cross-class system, a system DESIGNED to let you carry over abilities to use them on other classes. Somewhat boring, but necessary abilities such as a taunt are already handled in this matter, assuming they don't do something interesting with the WAR charge compared to DRK's Lunge, again, what's the point?

In SWTOR the Juggernaut and the Powertech both have an identical charge move, it does exactly the same thing with the same distance and the same cooldown, there are some specific class specific passive moves that trigger after for each but that's besides the point. By saying that two classes having the exact same move removes the differences between them and suddenly renders them pointless is ridiculous (and hyperbolic) as it disregards the entire rest of their respective toolkits and what makes them different. Drk and Pld both have identical moves in Shadow skin/Rampart and Sentinel/Shadow Wall. Sure it's not interesting necessarily, but it's fine for tanks to have identical moves if you take the rest of their toolkits in to account.

It's perfectly fine for Drk/War to have the exact same gap closer move, again, it's a basic tool that all tanks should have. But just because they both have the gap closer doesn't suddenly homogenize them both in to the same thing, now if Drk suddenly had to manage buff stacks and stance dance for maximum effectiveness and Warrior suddenly had to manage MP, you would have a point and I'd agree with you. However in this case, it's a good change giving warrior something it needed to round it's overall toolkit as a whole.

[whiteblade89]

If all tanks perform equally well by doing the same things, what's the point in there being 3 tanks?

Flavor :3.

[Silkerin]

I wonder when an actual pet class will be added to the game, because so far being a bahamut's mage already lost is novelty... still.... there they go and add another bahamut-ish spell... and sch got a new pet interaction skill in both 3.0 and 4.0, if they thought that meh bahamut wing book thing spell was the best thing to show in the trailer for smn, that only makes me think that yet again, no new pet interaction skill will be given to smn.

cmon devs, its not hard to give a single buff to smn to use, that makes the egis look a bit more similar to the actual primals and do something extra, like buff their damage or give some sort of support to the party.

[Giubba]

Part of me wonders if Cover is becoming a job skill, actually. It looks like we might be seeing some skill crossover between different jobs (I'm almost positive I saw RDM casting some form of Aero.

To put in bluntly it pretty oblivious why they added t us DRK that kind of skill. When off tanking we really don't have skills that can help the rest of the party so in instances where only 1 tank is needed (at this happen a lot of times even in contents where you should take 2 tanks) we are.....a dead weight.

The part it make me frown is that the skill it looks like exactly like cover something that paladin already have, and what warrior got ? a skill that exact carbon copy of plunge and paladin their holy version of unleash so a this point if all the tanks have their own version of the skills that once made each class distinct what the fuck is the point of having tank classes named with 3 different names?

The gap closer doesn't have to be literally the same thing though.

In WoW, you have Warriors, who charge, a basic gap closer.
You have monks, who can either do a short roll/dash in one direct, or do a longer flying click, both are aimed manually and don't lock on, still the same 'gap closer' effect.
Death Knights pull targets TOWARDS them, not themselves towards targets.


This is what makes difference between classes interesting. We already have this in some areas. Living Dead, Holmgang, and Hallowed Ground all 'ostensibly' do the same thing, they make a tank impossible to kill for a short time, but there's nuances to each.

Contrast this with the worse case scenario, two classes have an ability that is nearly identical, but one is flat out better. Life Surge and Reassemble BOTH make your next weaponskill crit. However, Life surge, has 10 seconds shorter of a cool down, and helps the DRG by restoring health, it's just better at everything than an otherwise identical skill, what's the point? What's important is that classes feel different enough to justify having so many to choose from.

The only homogenization we 'should' be getting is through the Cross-class system, a system DESIGNED to let you carry over abilities to use them on other classes. Somewhat boring, but necessary abilities such as a taunt are already handled in this matter, assuming they don't do something interesting with the WAR charge compared to DRK's Lunge, again, what's the point?

So much this

[Xlantaa]

Machinist will be like...

[Giubba]

From a comment on the youtube video made by mrhappy about the benchmark video

DRK's got a Tsundere shield now. "It's not like I like you or anything, but don't die."

Something in me died a little