A consern about space efficieny since stormblood is not getting enough space increase

[savageink]

https://gamerescape.com/2017/05/31/a...naoki-yoshida/


So their code is subpar, we knew that. Again the retainer interface is already too slow, esp if you have 8 of them. This only reinforces the idea that retainers storing items and interfacing with the market boards needs scraping entirely. This is based off 1.0 and it became outdated when 2.0 was made (the retainer system)

They need to stop looking at "How does the current system limit us" and looking at "How can we make a system with less limitations?" Make a real storage space like how every other game has storage banks, have retainers only be for ventures. This will also lessen the gap limitation of "pay to win" sort of speak when it comes to selling things if the market board has listings by the player directly like any other game. When most people sell 40 items I can sell 480+ slots is that fair?

It is clear retainers is just a leftover from 1.0 and was bridged to 2.0 because it was tolerable then. Now 3.0+ the retainer system is a failure because how much items this game has now.

This could be accomplished actually even if they kept the retainers as your means to access it. It would save them from adding bank locations and it would also keep the retainers relevant. Just make a modern bank with all of it's storage capabilities but have that same bank be accessed by the retainers from where ever you summon them. No separate inventories. They could still be the MB interface and the venture interface. But removing the inventory from them as characters would probably speed them up because they wouldn't have to pull the bank up unless you actually used it. The glam log should be a separate entity as well but I don't think it needs to be connected to the retainers at all. It could be all alone as an addition to character, or maybe a new function of the aesthetician, I guess if it has to be off the character menu.

[Ama_Hamada]

This could be accomplished actually even if they kept the retainers as your means to access it. It would save them from adding bank locations and it would also keep the retainers relevant. Just make a modern bank with all of it's storage capabilities but have that same bank be accessed by the retainers from where ever you summon them. No, separate inventories. They could still be the MB interface and the ventureinterface. But removing the inventory from them as characters would probably speed them up because they wouldn't have to pull the bank up unless you actually used it. The glam log should be a separate entity as well but I don't think it needs to be connected to the retainers at all. It could be all alone as an addition to character, or maybe a new function of the aesthetician, I guess if it has to be off the character menu.

I had to think about this, I knew it did not like it but I did not want to spout off blindly turning it down, best I came up with this.

I would accept it if it was more on line "need to settle" I would prefer them to make an item bank with taking retainers completely out of the picture as far as item management. Reason for this is speed basically, I shouldn't have to wait for these slow as af menus to load. (FC chest is way worse with this) so I would need some feedback on the development end wondering why the retainers, once you access their inventory is fast to load when compared to the FC chest. Maybe the game is doomed and locked in the bad coding for this in having the slow load times, I do not know.

I just do not understand why I can't just click something and access my items like wow. If you compare our retainers or FC chest to wow you should see what I mean by slow to load. I can understand people not seeing this an issue if they only have 1 retainer to deal with most of the time. However when you are crafting and going retainer to retainer moving items a lot, the long load times (the time you wait for retainer to come to bell and the menu load time) add up quickly and can cause frustrations on how much time is wasted on the slow retainers. I am talking about 30 min + wasted because of how the retainers are set up. I like to see a complete revamp on it, something we should of seen in 2.0. We are still getting restrictions off 1.0 and I do not get why.

[savageink]

I like to see a complete revamp on it, something we should of seen in 2.0. We are still getting restrictions off 1.0 and I do not get why.

I'm guessing the slowness is because it treats each retainer and their large inventory as a character and has to back it up just like one. And I don't disagree with the complete revamp. I'm just saying that if they needed or wanted to, connecting a separate shared bank to the retainer menu might work if the bank inventory is not actually connected to that retainers character but is a separate entity unto itself.

[OcieKo]

Don't get me wrong from my last post, I want a glamour log as much as the next person. I simply chose to explain what could happen if the glamour log functioned similar to inventories did for awhile.

Realistically, most of the information for a glamour log already exist. Every Item has a unique identifier # and a method of changing the answer of has one obtained said item from false to true needs to happen, which also exists in part due to the "Search for Item" function. The method for categorizing said items also exists given that all can be sorted into certain categories, as noted by the market board and crafting interfaces. Most likely every equipment slot had a desinated slot # that every item that goes there has included in its tag, albiet this can be done manually, and they could just put items in to their categories one by one, but this is extremely inefficient way of doing it as per say... Hands slot is 16 so a gloves tag could be like "Type=16 Item=11365" (just an example no idea how its done here).

The more challenging issues aside from the server and programming ones, is how to group relatable glamours together, i.e. putting The Aery sets and the Lost City of Mhach HM/Xelphatol (i think that was the other half of that pairing) similar items together, since as it comes to glamour this kind of sorting is nice. But that relies upon how texture maps and 3D models are saved, which can be more convoluted. Since in that case there could be two unique pairs or 1 3D model and two unique texture maps for it. After that its the undertaking of chaning how the glamour sustem works, from being item to item based, to link to item based. Also would require some work how to save identical appearance items that have different equip reqs. Case brought up earlier Makai Jewelry, after the 4.X accessories update, would the system just force you to have them all to glamour to anything, or just get the vit set and glamour to anything. A method of doing this would be to create a completley new item database that ties one appearance to multiple "real" items. Tho it wouldnt need new art files it would require the system to have its own set of item numbers so using the previous crappy visualization "Type=16 GItem=00274='Item=11365,12449'" issue here is that glamour item #s would have to be manually tied to actual item numbers at the start until a system can be implemented into all regular items which would look more like "Type=16 Item=11365 GItem=00274" and "Type=16 Item=122449 GItem=00274". Either way the first pass is a manual combing through of all existing items in both the code and by manually looking and comparing the items. AKA a TON of work.

Personal opinion, stop linking glamours to items if they rework the system. If anyone else played EQ2 theyll get this better. Where your gear is on your character sheet make a sub panel that can be switched over to for your appearance, and tie this to the item set save slots, thus limiting the number of options available to simply 2x gear sets. While this kind of work could slow the inception of a glamour log, doing them concurrently is a better option than changing the system multiple times.
Side note, in EQ2 that second character sheet required actual items "equipped" in those slots. While this does assist with the multiple glamours for the same gear issue, it does nothing for the inventory issue. Thus Log > Appearance Gear Sheet, instead of EQ2s Item Equppied to Appearance Slot.

[Shurrikhan]

I'm guessing the slowness is because it treats each retainer and their large inventory as a character and has to back it up just like one. And I don't disagree with the complete revamp. I'm just saying that if they needed or wanted to, connecting a separate shared bank to the retainer menu might work if the bank inventory is not actually connected to that retainers character but is a separate entity unto itself.

If so, that certainly sounds good at least.

I would accept it if it was more on line "need to settle" I would prefer them to make an item bank with taking retainers completely out of the picture as far as item management.

At that point they basically would be, though, right? It's like having a servant who you can ask to "go fetch/sell x item from the bank" for me. That doesn't necessarily make the delivery guy the bank itself, so long as one isn't loaded by default.

Might it also be possible to categorize all items, automatically and/or manually, and choose which categories one actually loads? I'm an idiot, but I that sounds vaguely like it might improve loading times for the bank itself when accessed either automatically through a bank teller or on demand through a retainer.

Also, I wonder if the FC chest is somehow taking longer to load due to the permissions issues? I don't think I've ever seen a bank take that long to load in any other MMO.

And a fairly large question for anyone who can hazard an educated guess:
- Why does SE insist on locking us out of class/gear/etc. changes whenever we're in a menu? What would be the cost of this lockout's removal? I would love to be able to craft while still peering into my retainer's inventory, but even just short of that, I'd really like to be able to trade out my armor or swap classes while looking through a vendor list.

[OcieKo]

And a fairly large question for anyone who can hazard an educated guess:
- Why does SE insist on locking us out of class/gear/etc. changes whenever we're in a menu? What would be the cost of this lockout's removal? I would love to be able to craft while still peering into my retainer's inventory, but even just short of that, I'd really like to be able to trade out my armor or swap classes while looking through a vendor list.

Simple answer, saving complexity. If they shut out different types of independent saves the system burden from any given save is reduced, along with possible errors. Given how many things "save" independently in this game its just practical. Kindof like how once you accept a queue, your gear cant be changed. Prevents the system from having to do multiple saves in rapid succession.

To open you retainer, your inventory, your armory, and your character sheet, is already 4 things that could have to be saved upon changes. If it simply pauses parts out the system gets a break in certain regards.

[KisaiTenshi]

And a fairly large question for anyone who can hazard an educated guess:
- Why does SE insist on locking us out of class/gear/etc. changes whenever we're in a menu? What would be the cost of this lockout's removal? I would love to be able to craft while still peering into my retainer's inventory, but even just short of that, I'd really like to be able to trade out my armor or swap classes while looking through a vendor list.

Probably just has to do with client server sync. Each activity opens a new multiplexed socket and if too many are open your frame rate goes down as it syncs all these open windows. It was probably a design choice more than an engineering one to encourage people to close unnecessary UI widgets so they're not blaming screwing up something due to lag.

[Ama_Hamada]

If so, that certainly sounds good at least.



At that point they basically would be, though, right?

What do you mean? No one asked them if they can get rid of retainers holding on items so they can make a more efficient way of storing your items. We are going to 4.0 with a revamp of the whole battle system, and making maps understandable. So why not do the same for crafting/gathering and inventory management?

[savageink]

What do you mean? No one asked them if they can get rid of retainers holding on items so they can make a more efficient way of storing your items. We are going to 4.0 with a revamp of the whole battle system, and making maps understandable. So why not do the same for crafting/gathering and inventory management?

I think she was saying that what I suggested would be similar to what you were asking for in a way, since the inventory would be separate from the retainer in the database.

[Ama_Hamada]

I think she was saying that what I suggested would be similar to what you were asking for in a way, since the inventory would be separate from the retainer in the database.

I know and the reason I disagree with it is because retainers have slow menu loading. I do not want item management to be attached to them if they do not have to be (and really shouldn't since that is from 1.0) I do not want to click on something to wait for a menu to load, then need to select different options to take my items out. I do not like the menu bloat retainers have, I should be able click on the bank and take my items like every other game, why is this one obsessed with slow menus? To make matters even worse, if you have a ping spike during the opening of it, it like freezes completely and you can't move or click out of it. I really hate the menus on the retainers.