Nerfing Healer Role Through Content

[Littlegreen]

Something I haven't seen discussed a whole lot is how to nerf the healer class as a role. We talk a lot about how to fix each individual healer, but let's just take a second to admit that healers are exceptionally powerful in the current content. Healing is a breeze even in some of the Savage raids and still leaves us room to DPS. Hell, SCH is basically a 5th DPS.

So let's switch gears and talk about nerfing from the angle of the content itself. Yes, bigger numbers hitting the tank would put a slightly larger strain on our Cure button but we can take things a step further.

In dungeons we can add a couple more trash mobs per pull, but what about easily identifiable mobs that have mini-tank busters (like those bees but less extreme and without the self-sacrifice part), or roaming monsters that spawn at a random location in the dungeon to keep the party on their toes? This would add a small variety to our roulettes without amping the difficulty too much but just enough to find those DPS windows harder to find and predict or create.

NM/HM trials could do with needing more work out of the off-healer, especially during add phases. Maybe more hazard spots or DoTs getting thrown out to other party members (the exploding healer mechanic from Ifrit EX comes to mind).

EX/Savage raids need the main healer to REQUIRE focusing on the MT, and this content could do with some more communication between tanks and healers. Tank busters that would OHKO a PLD even with a defensive CD (outside Hollowed Ground), but, say, a WAR could sponge. In this situation, let's say the tank buster would dish out 1k over the PLD health. The healers could top off the PLD and provide a shield the keep him alive and then focus heal him back up or have the WAR Provoke the attack and the PLD takes back aggros while the off healer heals up the WAR and main healer never stops focus healing the tank.

I want to know what you guys think. You can pick apart my examples, I admit I don't know a whole lot outside of WHM and a couple others I'm only now getting into so there are probably holes in thise examples somewhere, but the point is to think of ways to make the content itself nerf the healing role instead of strictly thinking of what traits/actions to remove/add/alter.

[Cyrocco]

The last healcheck that sticks out in my mind is Judgement Nissi, mostly because the other healchecks are raid-wide damage, so I'd like to see more of that going on. But if we're suggesting mechanics, I'd like to see more of the old zombie enemies from older Final Fantasy games, enemies that need to be healed to be killed, while the healers also focus on keeping the party topped off.

[Risvertasashi]

You picked a very odd title for your post.

In any case, I would be for increasing the healing requirements in content. Assuming SB follows the same pattern as HW, we'll get that in leveling content. Then endgame when ilvls start climbing and climbing, well...

Trash mobs having more powerful (unavoidable) cleave moves they use from time to time could help a bit...

[Fernosaur]

Just to make sure I'm not giving you insufficient credit, what's your endgame experience as healer? Have you cleared Savage battles? EX trials? If so, when did you? Did you clear them while they were still relevant and the attainable IL to enter them was close to the minimum? Or did you clear them some time after they were released, by getting better gear and etc.

Don't take this the wrong way, I just want to make sure where you're coming from to understand your points better.

[Risvertasashi]

If so, when did you? Did you clear them while they were still relevant and the attainable IL to enter them was close to the minimum?

I know this was directed at the OP but this still brings up some points I want to mention:

Half the problem is, indeed, being overgeared. Because the content is outdated when it's released. Sure, 11s and 12s have a fair bit of healing to do. But, say, Zurvan ex... that was a joke to soloheal from day 1, unless you get tanks that don't like using CDs on the Wills or something and even then.

And even excluding such content, dungeons at minimum ilvl do take a decent bit of healing. This is why large pulls lead to wipes on the HW leveling dungeons at 55/57+, and why the same thing will probably happen in SB in June. But outside of that... once we're at "endgame" dungeons, they're always going to release 30 or 40 ilvls below what players are at, and yes, that's a big part of why they're so trivial.

That doesn't mean it's not a problem, though.

[Tint]

And even excluding such content, dungeons at minimum ilvl do take a decent bit of healing. This is why large pulls lead to wipes on the HW leveling dungeons at 55/57+, and why the same thing will probably happen in SB in June. But outside of that... once we're at "endgame" dungeons, they're always going to release 30 or 40 ilvls below what players are at, and yes, that's a big part of why they're so trivial.

That doesn't mean it's not a problem, though.

the question is why are they 30 or 40 ilvl below your actual ilvl at release?

1 - they are designed for that ilvl so a new player who has just started the game can jump into the dungeon without getting gear from any weekly lockouts first.

2 - they are designed for that ilvl so a second class of a veteran player can directly jump into the dungeon without getting gear from any weekly lockouts first.

so... why is the "Expert" dungeon designed for new players, who have a lot of "new" dungeons they can choose from from previous patches (at least they are new for them), and second classes? why not for main classes?

you can not only design it for a higher item level, but also make it harder overall, since new players and second classes, both indicators that the player is not as skilled as a veteran player on his mainclass, are excluded from the dungeon.

[Littlegreen]

Just to make sure I'm not giving you insufficient credit, what's your endgame experience as healer? Have you cleared Savage battles? EX trials? If so, when did you? Did you clear them while they were still relevant and the attainable IL to enter them was close to the minimum? Or did you clear them some time after they were released, by getting better gear and etc.

Don't take this the wrong way, I just want to make sure where you're coming from to understand your points better.

I kinda only just got into raiding recently, so maybe I don't have room to talk in the first place. My experience is clearing A9S a couple weeks ago at i269 and most of my knowledge of other raids comes from my bf talking it through with me while he heals it. The pattern I noticed is that even when the damage gets intense, a lot of it is avoidable so I was thinking along the lines of something unavoidable but, with some coordination before the fight, is easily healed through.

[bswpayton]

Something I haven't seen discussed a whole lot is how to nerf the healer class as a role. We talk a lot about how to fix each individual healer, but let's just take a second to admit that healers are exceptionally powerful in the current content. Healing is a breeze even in some of the Savage raids and still leaves us room to DPS. Hell, SCH is basically

I dont really get the impression that healers want harder heal checks its plenty of healers that still struggle with healing a tank on large pulls , I dont really think we need it to change

[Holy-chan]

I see a few people suggesting unavoidable damage to increase the amount of healing a healer has to do. My own point of view on this idea is that unavoidable damage is the exact opposite of where the game needs to go. It dumbs down skilled players from, you know, playing skillfully. That's why Titan EX is awesome. You need to dodge. You play skillfully or you die. If you make damage unavoidable just so the healer can heal, everything is dumbed down for everyone.

[Zojha]

I dont really get the impression that healers want harder heal checks its plenty of healers that still struggle with healing a tank on large pulls [...]

There are seriously healers that have trouble pressing CureII/BeneficII/Adlo on the same target over and over?
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