I do not understand how an Astrologian does its Magic.

[Sylvain]

I think it is specifically drawing aether from the starlight that has traveled to Hydaelyn's surface. That is, after all, the tangible phenomenon an Astrologian is observing when you attune to the heavens. And if the Crystal Tower can draw aether from sunlight, it should be possible to extract aether from starlight.

I know it's a fantasy game but SE tend to keep things coherent within the universe.
If we would draw our power from the the starlight, then shouldn't we get stronger in daylight than during nightime? Since we'd receive more?


Assuming the game makes a difference between our star and other stars (which would be odd, also considering we have those diurn and nocturnal stance), we would still receive the same amount of starlight during day time. We just can't see because the sun ocercast the faint light coming from these distant stars.

Yeah, I have noticed that AST is basically this games Time Mage. Although despite the space theme of the class, many of the space themed attacks in the series are offensive in nature, such as comet, demi, and x-zone.

I know many people do not agree with me on this regard, but I do believe through a sheer amount of wishful thinking that Time Mage and Astrologian would be 2 side of the same coin.
They both manipulate time and space, but not in the same way.
Astrologian heal by rewinding the person time back to a state when they weren't hurt. (oddly enough, they're not slowed, just the wound seems to go back in time)
I would easily see the Time Mage do the opposite, instead of reverting time, they'd greatly accelerate one's body function making them age without necessarly hasting the whole person (since the astro seems to be able to locally rewind time, logically, one could locally forwind the body, hasting one's heart only wouldn't do too much good I think)

Beyond the lore, I think there's a lot of potential in a DPS job based around time manipulation (cooldown and buff/debuff manipulation and such).

Yoshida in a not so long ago interview was asked why he stopped on the RDM and SAM, he basically said that the community was screaming so much for RDM that it was a no brainer (and that it felt good with the theme of the new xpac), for the SAM, it was a bit different, they were looking at various other job that could fit the dps role, Time Mage for example (yes, he gave 1 only example and it was time mage), but then they felt that SAM was overall also extremely requested and there wouldn't be a better opportunity than SB to introduce it.
And the whole thing about space and gravity manipulation would fit perfectly well too. Afterall, space and time are one thing.
I also forsee the classic "but Astro got gravity", well if what's prevent SE from making the Time Mage is that gravity was giving to the Ast, it means they'd seriously lack imagination, which isn't the case imo.

So... I have hope... maybe my dream job will make it to the game one day... probably not 5.0 as someone told me Yoshida said the next xpac would have a tank and a heal (I can't find the interview / post though)

[LineageRazor]

I know it's a fantasy game but SE tend to keep things coherent within the universe.
If we would draw our power from the the starlight, then shouldn't we get stronger in daylight than during nightime? Since we'd receive more?


Assuming the game makes a difference between our star and other stars (which would be odd, also considering we have those diurn and nocturnal stance), we would still receive the same amount of starlight during day time. We just can't see because the sun ocercast the faint light coming from these distant stars.

Not odd at all, really. It's only relatively recently in human history that we've discovered that stars are just faraway suns. Prior to that, it was believed that they were totally different types of celestial objects. A fantasy universe like this one can go with whichever interpretation it likes.

However, it IS stated that Midgardsormr carried his brood to Hydaelyn from another star, I believe, which implies that it is known in the game that the sun is also a star... Or perhaps, the planet is. In this cosmology, it could easily be the case that the sun is not a humongous ball of nuclear gas, but instead a small, but very warm object also in orbit around Hydaelyn. (Think of how the sun is portrayed in the Discworld series of books.) So, the stars we see in the sky are other planets like Hydaelyn, visible because they also have tiny bright suns spinning around them.

Even in the tiny sun case, though, your question is still unanswered: Why couldn't AST get more star power from the sun, an incredibly nearby star? There's a couple of explanations. Perhaps they DO - but star power does not dilute over distance. The amount of energy we get from our sun is no greater or lesser than we get from far suns. The sun is just another celestial body providing exactly one celestial body's worth of Astrologian power. Or, another explanation, perhaps traveling interstellar distances cures or tempers the star power in some way that makes it usable to Astrologians, while the nearby sun's power doesn't travel long enough to get the same effect. The space between astral bodies has, after all, been referred to as "the aether" in classical times in real life; perhaps there's some kind of aether star power travels through as it moves that empowers it in some way.

There are many possible explanations - and the game itself hints at pretty much none of them. Probably never will, either, as delving into this kind of nitty-gritty is a great way to get your lore tangled up over time. :P

[Sylvain]

Not odd at all, really. It's only relatively recently in human history that we've discovered that stars are just faraway suns. Prior to that, it was believed that they were totally different types of celestial objects. A fantasy universe like this one can go with whichever interpretation it likes.

Well yeah I know that but that's not exactly what I went for, since they are the same object, if there power was truly coming from this source, then the whole diurn/nocturnal shouldn't work as nocturnal would simply be a weak diurnal.

But we see that it is not the case obviously, so shouldnt it instead means that they get the energy from a different source, weither it is the actual source.
Does it even have to be the star? It's not because they believe they get their energy from the star that this is actually the case, Does it matter that much that their energy comes from the star or not? As long as they do get energy to manipulate, the source shouldn't matter much. Also, there's been case of people using magic without really understanding where they got it from or how it worked. The WHM quest for instance shows that some people can manipulate magic without specifically understanding how it works.

Afterall, magic in FF14 is very "physical and scientific" as it is part of the natural world and manipulating ether/magic is something any living being seem to be able to achieve, so it is unconscious and natural to some degree. Ether manipulation is a natural phenomena in FF14. (Unlike FF15 for instance where it needs to be granted, but once you can access it, it seems to be a very natural thing to do, like, just thought manifestation)
For instance, if they strongly believes stars are different entities, shouldn't the different nature of the magic they use depends more on their perception instead of what it truly is, a bit like how they still predict event based on a moon that doesn't exist and wasn't really a moon. The fact that it worked (without them exactly knowing why), imo, points toward the fact that it only works because they strongly believe it does, they basically make the magic works through sheer will power and faith.
And we know how strong will power and faith can be as a form of magic manipulation/manifestation in FF14.

However, it IS stated that Midgardsormr carried his brood to Hydaelyn from another star, I believe, which implies that it is known in the game that the sun is also a star... Or perhaps, the planet is. In this cosmology, it could easily be the case that the sun is not a humongous ball of nuclear gas, but instead a small, but very warm object also in orbit around Hydaelyn. (Think of how the sun is portrayed in the Discworld series of books.) So, the stars we see in the sky are other planets like Hydaelyn, visible because they also have tiny bright suns spinning around them.

Everyone knows it? I didn't know her words were vastly known on this even by scholar.
Regarding the nature of the star, I agree it doesnt have to be a ball of plasma dealing nuclear reaction at its core, and anyway, can we even say something such as nuclear reaction exist in FF14? Everything, including living beings, are made of ether, and ether seems to follow different rules than atoms when it comes to physical phenomena. Personally, I've always seen the sun in FF14 as a huge chunk of fire Ether floating

Even in the tiny sun case, though, your question is still unanswered: Why couldn't AST get more star power from the sun, an incredibly nearby star? There's a couple of explanations. Perhaps they DO - but star power does not dilute over distance.

Well that'd be odd because most magical phenomena do seem to dissipate over distance, like, you know, how our fields / light source do. Like, many times magical phenomenom did have a range, so it would be very very odd that this doesn't such a basic rule.

There are many possible explanations - and the game itself hints at pretty much none of them. Probably never will, either, as delving into this kind of nitty-gritty is a great way to get your lore tangled up over time. :P

Well this is why I suppose that they don't actually get it from the star.
The fact that a great part of their art worked based on a lie (a false moon thought to be a true celestial object) implies that these object do not hold any power.
If something as important as a moon (which wasn't an actual moon but a man made object) can disapear without perturbing the magic they use, (and we can't say "it doesnt affect it because it wasnt a true moon, since their set of belief was based on that, and it worked based on that) then I suppose that if a constellation vanishes, the rule should hold.