I do not understand how an Astrologian does its Magic.

[JMadFour]

When an Astrologian casts a spell, what is he doing? How does it produce the effect that it does?

When he pulls a Card from his deck, and uses it, what happens? How does using that card physically produce the effect that it does?

All of the quest dialogue and descriptions seem vague to me. Maybe I'm just dumb and that's why I don't get it. I go stand somewhere and "attune" to a constellation...but what exactly does that mean? My character just kinda goes somewhere and looks at the sky, then all of a sudden he's more powerful or whatever. I "read Fates" and channel the stars and whatnot, but how exactly does that heal someone or damage an enemy, or make someone faster or stronger?

the other classes I've played are far more direct about how their power is generated and how it is used to produce the desired effect. Can someone spell it out in stupid people terms, what exactly an Astrologian does?

I really like the Class, game-wise, but Lore-wise, I just don't get it. Help?

[Anonymoose]

DISCLAIMER: This is a lot of rambling and theorycraft; I don't have much in my citation bin for this at the moment (digging now) and I encourage you to correct me if you do.

Astrologian pays a lot of homage to real-world mysticism, especially (of course) astrology and tarot. This never-ending quest for clairvoyant foresight seems to fog up the actual mechanics of the job quite a bit. Even I'm not 100% on what's supposed to be happening, but I'll tell you where I've made it so far.

Aether can be "attuned" to (tuned to the frequency of, so to speak) the elements and various mixes thereof; seemingly to almost any behavioral profile. Aether can do almost anything if you can weave it right. Now, the vast majority of Final Fantasy XIV abilities - down to even the punches and kicks of the monks - rely on an internal reservoir of aether. Rarely, this will be circumvented by a mage using ambient aether, but it seems to be an exception rather than the rule. Therefore, I doubt astrologians are actually drawing energy from such extremely distant objects.

Rather, I'm increasingly confident that they're just attuning their own internal aether after associating various "frequencies" with knowledge of the heavens - much like how a ninja can attune their internal aether based on association with certain hand movements. If such and such a hand motion (for a ninja) helps them attune their aether to have "Heaven"-ly qualities, such and such a constellation and/or alignment or behavior of stars (for an astrologian) might be tied to a certain aetherial state relating to those traditions and beliefs.

If this is true, "opening a gate" to a constellation might simply be calling upon a mental association between your knowledge of the heavens and aether being in a certain state, allowing you to attune your internal aether to that state. Real-world association is powerful; even memory can be context-dependent. You might do (slightly) better on a test if you have a hot cocoa while studying and drink a hot cocoa during the test, for example. (A more familiar example for most would be a smell or song triggering memories.)

If you look up terms like benefic, malefic, and combust (a certain type of conjunction), these are all just real-world terms for how relative positions of stars are thought or believed to influence reality (they most probably don't, especially taking into account that stars drift, calendars drift, and astrology has out of its own alignment for a long time).

But for a mage in a fantasy game? Anything is possible. Reading the stars for fortunetelling, you'd know where they are and can call to mind a malefic association to attune your aether to weave a damaging spell. You could call to mind a benefic association to attune your aether to weave a healing spell. Using cards for fortunetelling, you'd trust that what you've drawn is or will be the right card at the right time foretelling the right events to come, and that how you choose to use it will determine if you properly interpreted its warnings, and then you can attune your aether based on your strong association with that card and what it means.

I would assume it's just as much in the mind of the mage as the "darkness" of the Dark Knight, the "mudra" of the Ninja, the "chi" of the Monk, and so on and so on. It would be no different than believing roses are associated with fire and then carrying around a rose to touch and see and smell to harness that association and have an easier time channeling fire.

[Shadotterdan]

The way I seemed to get it from the first quest is that for Astrologians, it's not so much that reading a result in the cards foretells of a future event, but that the act of foretelling the event causes it to happen, and that some of the abilities allow you to do things like save that future for another time and stuff like that. As far as the stars go, I haven't actually done any of the other class quests so I don't have much information, but it might help to remember that in a fantasy setting like this, the stars may not be like they are in real life, but an actual pattern in the firmament that has influence over the aether of the world below, and that knowing how to read the patterns above gives insight to how the aether of you and your allies/foes is related.

[Auloriel]

Anonymoose, I'm not particularly inclined to get into a lore debate with you, but I want to provide a counterpoint.

For the Greeks, their mythology gave a backstory to many constellations, and in their mythology they weren't not just clusters of stars forming a particular shape, but a living, powerful entity watching, or haunting, the Heavens. Similarly, the constellations in FFXIV are associated with specific entities from mythology, although whether they recognize them as just being stars in a particular shape, or believe them to be actual entities/aspects living among the stars, isn't stated to the best of my knowledge.

Even today, astrology holds that the far distant stars have the power to influence activities and even destinies on Earth. Being a fantasy game, and what's more a Final Fantasy game which is even weirder at times, it's not outside the realm of possibility that Astrologians are in fact drawing residual aether from celestial bodies.

[Zohar_Lahar]

I got the general impression the Astrologian draws aether from the stars rather than the planetary environment (like conjury) or internal biology (like thaumaturge).

[Valarian]

There is a theory that every time it is possible that two different events could have happened, the universe splits into two universes, one where the event occurred, and one where it did not. As such, there would be as many universes as there were possible states of that universe.

In our universe, the fall of Dalamud was not prevented, precipitating the calamity and all the events of 'a realm reborn' that we've participated in. In another version of Eorzea's timeline, perhaps Dalamud never fell, and everyone there is still in a blissful Astral era.

If you wanted to, you could perhaps consider the power of an Astrologian not so much as 'reading the future' but choosing, out of a possible set of futures, which future to bring about.

The stars have long been thought to affect our futures, or sometimes even determine them, so it is natural for an Astrologian to turn to the stars to borrow that power. To ask the stars to show them what their choices are, perhaps. As an Astrologian becomes familiar with the stars, they are granted knowledge of a wider range of possible futures. By learning which stars affect what aspects of the future, they have greater control over which kinds of future to peer into. Astrologians never reach the ability to tell /any/ future they desire, and an element of randomness always remains even as their ability to manipulate that randomness grows. The future always remains a place where anything is possible.

While most classes have to play the hand they're dealt, or move forward with the possibilities presented to them, the Astrologian can change exchange what is possible for a different more favorable set of possibilities, if the stars and cards will show them that set for them to choose.

Nobody knows how magic really works, and that's what makes it magic, but, however they're doing it, Astrologians write the futures they want. They read ahead in the story a little bit, and edit it to suit their wishes before it actually happens.

In one Eorzean universe, your tank was killed by the boss when a tank buster went off and they couldn't withstand the damage. The Astrologian saw that coming and edited the event so that the tank survived instead. Most of us have had a few days where everything just seemed to go right. We call it luck or good fortune. An Astrologian nods to him or herself, thanks the stars, and calls it a job well done.

[Anonymoose]

Being a fantasy game, and what's more a Final Fantasy game which is even weirder at times, it's not outside the realm of possibility that Astrologians are in fact drawing residual aether from celestial bodies.

I got the general impression the Astrologian draws aether from the stars rather than the planetary environment (like conjury) or internal biology (like thaumaturge).

This is what Astrologians believe; the quests do make that clear. I just have my doubts that it's true. If one can truly draw aether directly from ... let's be conservative and just say "farther away than the moon" ... why not places you've been before? Why not cast all fire magicks drawing from Thanalan, for example? I can't shake this feeling that if you can draw aether from space, Black Mages are nothing; something about it sits wrong with me.

Much of my doubt stems from the fact that other things Astrologians believe don't seem quite fully true, either. For example, we know that the seeds of faith that eventually became The Twelve have changed much over time. The Astrologians see the Third Heaven as a realm contains a giant clockwork tower built by Byregot and assailed by Rhalgr's levinbolts, but their understanding of the constellation and artworks associated with it are clearly just cultural memories of Dalamud transferring energy to the Crystal Tower. I choose to keep faith in many things in this game, even when given reason to doubt them - but man is fallible and traditions are often at least a LITTLE askew of the whole truth.

A parallel, Widargelt and Erik have very different interpretations of what the art of the Monk is, but both are right in their own ways.

I won't get too too into it just yet, though, as I'm still reading and translating the quests and collecting quotes.
I could be very wrong; perhaps even during blinding daylight you can tap the distant stars, lol.
It's just my "suspicion of the moment" and it needs more research.

One kooky sentiment that I really liked was that perhaps they are attuning to the energies represented in those stars by bathing in their starlight, which might contain tiny, tiny traces of aether for all we know. After that, they can recall it and attune to it - like being tainted by a primal's death mist. But I literally made that up, so...

But no, I will get back to you on this when I have exhaustively double-checked the quest lore.

For the Greeks, their mythology gave a backstory to many constellations, and in their mythology they weren't not just clusters of stars forming a particular shape, but a living, powerful entity watching, or haunting, the Heavens. Similarly, the constellations in FFXIV are associated with specific entities from mythology, although whether they recognize them as just being stars in a particular shape, or believe them to be actual entities/aspects living among the stars, isn't stated to the best of my knowledge.

To put it simply, Eorzeans believe that these stars represent realms in yet beyond the firmament ("skybox") where the Twelve reside. Gods and man once lived side by side, theology says, but with the First Umbral Era came an end to the Age of Gods, and they left us. Beyond this creation, which we have inherited, they created a Heaven for each of the six elements, and a final Seventh Heaven above all. Two gods live in each elemental heaven, and these six heavens are represented by the constellations that bear their colors. So, to Eorzeans, the First Heaven is of Earth, and is the realm created by Nophica - who planted the Bole - and Althyk - who raised it to greatness.

I'm not particularly inclined to get into a lore debate with you

I respect this inclination wholly, but go ahead and feel free if you ever do feel like it, lol. I welcome all civil debate that amounts to more than "Well, I like my headcanon and we cannot both be right; I will now devalue your theories without sound counter-evidence."

After all, my whole goal is to properly archive the story and history of the game, and we are often here debating things that are not yet known conclusively enough to file away. Debate shaves off those rough edges and, if nothing else, narrows our field of options, theories, and interpretations.

And that's not even taking into account the times that the only reason I haven't filed it away is because it's not something I've exhaustively torn apart yet; someone who has while I was focusing on something else might already have the evidence to box me in before I finish digging!

[Zohar_Lahar]

This is what Astrologians believe; the quests do make that clear. I just have my doubts that it's true. If one can truly draw aether directly from ... let's be conservative and just say "farther away than the moon" ... why not places you've been before? Why not cast all fire magicks drawing from Thanalan, for example? I can't shake this feeling that if you can draw aether from space, Black Mages are nothing; something about it sits wrong with me.

Much of my doubt stems from the fact that other things Astrologians believe don't seem quite fully true, either. For example, we know that the seeds of faith that eventually became The Twelve have changed much over time. The Astrologians see the Third Heaven as a realm contains a giant clockwork tower built by Byregot and assailed by Rhalgr's levinbolts, but their understanding of the constellation and artworks associated with it are clearly just cultural memories of Dalamud transferring energy to the Crystal Tower. I choose to keep faith in many things in this game, even when given reason to doubt them - but man is fallible and traditions are often at least a LITTLE askew of the whole truth.

[----]

One kooky sentiment that I really liked was that perhaps they are attuning to the energies represented in those stars by bathing in their starlight, which might contain tiny, tiny traces of aether for all we know. After that, they can recall it and attune to it - like being tainted by a primal's death mist. But I literally made that up, so...

I think it is specifically drawing aether from the starlight that has traveled to Hydaelyn's surface. That is, after all, the tangible phenomenon an Astrologian is observing when you attune to the heavens. And if the Crystal Tower can draw aether from sunlight, it should be possible to extract aether from starlight.

[LineageRazor]

It's also worth mentioning that stars in this fantasy universe are not necessarily the same as stars in ours. They don't have to be impossibly distant suns - they might actually be quite close by, not much further away than the sun or moon (which, in turn, may ALSO be a similar distance from the planet, with the sun being much smaller and closer than the sun in the real world). While Occam's Razor postulates that we should assume that the universe there works like the one here, unless directly contradicted, we do need to remember that this is a fictional universe, and the crazy claims made by the natives may be actual truth, rather than unenlightened nonsense.

That said, it's clear that the Astrologians are not infallible. Like most, they thought that Dalamud was a true moon and plotted their astrology accordingly - up to the point when it was called down and Bahamut broke free. Even afterwards, though, they continue to perform their astrology assigning importance to the empty place Dalamud used to be.

Or is this, in fact, a mistake at all? In this world, it could be the case that whether an astral body is artificial or not does not change the fact that it is an astral body, and therefore has influence on fate? It's interesting to think about - particularly if the world ever returns to the level of advancement enjoyed by the Allagans. Astrology could become pretty key if affecting future events could be achieved simply by launching satellites into proper positions in the sky! "Huh, so, you next Watersday to be sunny? We're gonna need new moons here and here, stars in these four positions, and move Moon #728 from this position to here. The engineers are gonna need to work overtime, but I think we can get this done!"

[NoblePigeon]

I actually wanted to ask a similar question, if anyone would like to answer.

So, Astrology in FFXIV originated in Sharlayan, but I'd like to believe that astromancy was also used by the Allagans in a similar way too. The Allagan Star Globe is really the only in-game indication that this might have been a thing. Also, the Allagans were capable of space travel, so I'd imagine their interpretation of the stars would be at least somewhat different than how modern day Eorzeans understand them.

So my question would be: would the Allagans have treated astromancy with as much of a "mystic" air as modern Astroligans do, or were they more practical in its usage? Would they try to apply their magitek to astromancy?

I ask because I wanted to RP a character who finds an Allagan Soul Stone (in the form of some kinda technomagical virus) and learns Allagan Astromancy as a result. It wouldn't be inherently any more powerful than modern Eorzean/Sharlayan Astroligans, but would just be flavored in a different aesthetic, while still being recognizable as astromancy + magitek.

Sorry for my lore-bending questions, but I was rather curious.