[QOL IDEA] Multijob Queue

[Paladinleeds]

Noooooooooooooo this would just destroy the ques.

Destroy them how? Show us some examples, like we've shown examples of how it can help the queues.

[sarehptar]

This won't significantly affect DPS queues as the players that play purely DPS are extremely likely to... keep playing DPS exclusively even with this QoL update.

Definitely don't mean to contradict on your own thread, and I'm sure you understand your idea better than I do, but I think the only group that would see a significant change in queue times from this would be DPS?

I guess I'm thinking of it like this, if we take the example of people queuing solo for a 4-man duty:

A person who mains tank now queues as tank/healer/DPS.
90% of the time, their queue time wouldn't change because they already queued as the fastest thing (tank). Maybe, on the rare occasion, something else is needed, but for the most part, they wouldn't see a significant change from this.

A person who mains healer now queues as healer/tank/DPS.
They will see an decrease in queue time because they will often end up playing tank. However, since they were already getting relatively speedy queue times, this won't be a massive change for them.

A person who mains DPS now queues as DPS/tank, DPS/healer, or DPS/tank/healer.
This is the only group liable to see a significant shortening in queue times because they previously went from being only in the longest queue to now being the shortest and second shortest queues. The number of people who are liable to queue like this is small but not non-existent, and that's the big deal. Anything that can be done to reduce the number of DPS queuing as DPS only will have an impact on the overall queue for everyone.

As for the people who play DPS only and will never queue as tank or healer--they still do get a bonus from any of the above scenarios. Right now, the worst shortage is tanks. In expert roulette, when I queue as heals, I currently get thrown into a waiting list typically between 15-20 other healers. If even five of those healers marked tank too, that's five more parties that go through the DF--which means five more groups of DPS that also got in faster. If even 5 DPS mark tank or healer, that's another five parties moving up the queue. It will improve the queue times for DPS overall. It's not a miracle cure for sure, but it would be a step in the right direction.

Not to mention the example I gave earlier about pre-made groups. Allowing flexibility in the roles for a partial pre-made would significant speed up queue times for DPS, particularly in older content, by making it easier to find matches for partial pre-made groups. A group that could only fit one DPS before might suddenly be able to fit three if people were allowed to queue flexibly. It would help.

I feel like you shouldn't sell your own idea short! XD

[Moonlite]

I'm fully aware that queuing is a complex process behind the scenes. But if something that already exists in other places and would massively improve player quality of life is too complex for FFXIV's developers to implement... maybe it's time to get some new developers. :/

You do remember the fiasco last time they tried to fix ques? Also you can check the many discussions over on PvP about how the duty finder works. It is not the most optimal system. They also have a strong desire against change. Which leads one to believe that poor design from the start would cause them to redo.

[sarehptar]

In this thread, people who obviously don't program trying to posit when programmers should be fired without knowing any details about the database... The setup that you have has a direct effect on what you can code the logic in to do and you can absolutely be limited by it.

Are you suggesting that FFXIV's setup is so limited that it absolutely cannot achieve something WoW, Wildstar, and other MMOs have already been able to? And, if so, are you really okay with the long-term implications of that statement? If they are so limited they can't achieve what other MMOs already have at the current moment, what does that say about the game's ability to continue competing in the future? This is why we've been debating whether or not a consistent lack of updates to the queuing system is a sign of significant back-end development issues which might validate a need for new developers. Certainly a lack of new content will kill a game, but persistent and likely increasing issues with quality of life can kill a game too. It isn't ridiculous to expect FFXIV's back-end setup to be on par with the setups of other major MMOs, nor to expect FFXIV's developers to be able to do what other major MMO game developers already have.

Developers also don't decide the projects that will move the business forward. They can make a case to those who control the purse strings, but even Yoshi-P has shareholders he will be answerable to who want to keep costs low and want deliverables they can market.

And there's the nail on the head. Like I mentioned in my previous post, Square is going to do everything in its power to maximize profits while minimizing investment. So long as players continue to complacently play without complaining, this game will never get the major infrastructure changes it clearly desperately needs. That's why we need threads like this! So that player feedback can continue to be passed along, putting pressure on decision-makers to make said major infrastructure changes.

We get nothing by being quiet. That's just basic logic?

[Makeda]

Noooooooooooooo this would just destroy the ques.

I actually think it would have the opposite effect. People who right now are willing to tank or heal, but desire more to DPS - can only pick one and then sit in queue for it. Such people, in a multi-queue, could pick any, and go where demand puts them.

I like how in WoW, whatever is currently the least popular choice, gets a bonus item. When they started that system it was something really nice. I got several "rare" mounts and minions from it because I was willing to select the 'tank' option. Now they give you some minor token points... so it has no impact on actually swaying people, and is just the 'bonus for being a healer or tank', or for 'entry raids'... for being a 'DPS'.
- But just the fact that you can queue for any role there, often speeds things up. I used to pick all 3 selections (my mains were monk, druid, paladin), I didn't always get pulled in as tank - but I did get fast queues.

[Jadub2k]

While this is a Good Idea, I had my own idea about helping queue times in this game. So instead of creating a new thread, i'm just do something somewhat construtive instead of saying why I don't want the game to change and stay stagnant by adding on my idea to yours..

Now your idea does have some sound it and you're on to something, I like it, it would help a bit with ques. What I had in mind for a thread was like what if they took the party structure from something that already in the game (and proven to destory queue times)? AKA PotD.. (Now i'm not saying ALL content in the game needs to be this way & yes I realize current content isn't built for this but would be nice to throw this out there and see more content built around this to help with que's outside of it)

PotD is by far one of the most succuessful pieces of content released for the game & with PotD party stucture anyone could que up as anyone Role/Job of there prefered choice. When queued, you could end up with 4 Tanks, 4 Healers, maybe 3 DPS and 1 healer ("Whelp, there's your party fellas. Up to you to win, go figure it out!" lol). That's part of the fun, part of the challenge.

I mean, how many people who have queued up as DPS have waited longer then 5-10 mins (if that long)? Because I rarely have and when the expansion launches, it quite "possibly" will have the fastest queue times in the game. (Going of on a limb with this one but) Who knows, with this type of structure they could possibly add a 4th role to the game adding more varity or XIV exclusive jobs. Because other then this, I don't see any other possible way then could add one but thats a topic for another thread.

[Makeda]

Now your idea does have some sound it and you're on to something, I like it, it would help a bit with ques. What I had in mind for a thread was like what if they took the party structure from something that already in the game (and proven to destory queue times)? AKA PotD..

PotD is by far one of the most succuessful pieces of content released for the game & with PotD party stucture anyone could que up as anyone Role/Job of there prefered choice. When queued, you could end up with 4 Tanks, 4 Healers, maybe 3 DPS and 1 healer ("Whelp, there's your party fellas. Up to you to win, go figure it out!" lol). That's part of the fun, part of the challenge.

'PotD suffers from the Guild Wars 2 problem: All of the enemies, and even the boss fights, have simple mechanics that don't require coordination and can't do much damage to you if you simply pay attention to position and don't overpull.

- The fights are actually amazingly boring after a short time.

The content is only "successful" because it gives an iLevel 255 weapon and can speed level classes that are not tanks or healers. Everyone I meet in or out of PoTD hates the place, but they run it because 'they feel they have to'...

Doing that, game wide, in Guild Wars 2 - nearly killed their game. Instead they got rid of their entire dungeon design team, hired new people, and put in a traditional raiding system (with trinity roles), and focused on an expansion that was otherwise only open world content and 'events' (basically like FATES, but often chained together).