Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[bswpayton]

Two words: Your. Problem.

Guess what? This is my first MMO aswell. As in: my very first. .

Im not sayin that Im not doing content I did miss alex 1 to 9 but I will be at least going into 11s and 12 s but Im very aware it took some people months to beat this content so I dont expect anything. Ive cleared every extreme primal but zurvan in hw, just got tired of dps dyin to soar and took a break from it for a while but will go back in. Again Im not sure how many times I must say Im not asking the game to change anything current at all. Im just agreeing with the op because from what I see A nobody is using it in df, B nobody is puttin any sync runs in pf either.

I just recently tried to help a fc mate do a2s because I had only done a1s and a4s and would like to get as much alex done sync while I can but the thing is nobody joined Like I mention before. When people come to these forums and say that people dont do this content why dont people listen , just because your friends may be cool about doing stuff many other people arent if you are reaching out to the whole player base as a whole via party finder. There are rules and balances to things just like its a meta in raids like all of this is stuff that the community makes and what they want for the most part to take place in the game happens. Whether that be no nubs in your parties, kicking people for under performing all of that is from a wave of what some players think things should go and others just follow the lead.

I remember I did dun scathe with a fc member was her first time , she died alot the party kicked her despite it not really effecting how the raid was going I said its her first time chill out I get kicked out right after for speakin up for a friend. See thats the kind of nonsense that goes on in this game, and those are the kinda people you have to deal with to do certain content sometimes its just maybe better to get your clear and be fine simply because when people think they are good being an ****hole tends to go with it. Id rather stand up for the little players that just want a chance because I know many that the reason they dont do content is because of egotistic players.

So its hard for me to agree with those type of players because of their attitudes. So thats why its easy to agree with op on this post the players that are commenting im sure did coil when it was relevant well its like they have had all this time to do it. So why shouldn't other people share that experience as well it is just unsync content at what point does it no longer matter anymore. Its not the content its the people, its always the people until that changes in the game it will always be a wedge, thats why I have been a get a clear move on to the next player sometimes its better than dealing with rude vile people.

[Dualgunner]

A whole lot of words that can be summed up as "People who have cleared are the bourgeoisie and the proletariat uncleared must rise!"

So you have nothing of value to add but "Noobs are weaksauce and need the vets to hold their hands through everything or have all difficulty curve steamrolled into a flat line."

[Vidu]

So you have nothing of value to add but "Noobs are weaksauce and need the vets to hold their hands through everything or have all difficulty curve steamrolled into a flat line."

That was basically their stance on EX-primals aswell already, yes - seperating experience people who want to farm and people who want to learn is bad in their book because those who want to learn will never be able to clear this way (since those who are experienced arent willing to help them). Basically assuming that anyone who (still) wants to clear EX-primals is totally unable to do that without having someone who knows the content well to hold their hand. As I said countless times on this specific matter again: Its a disrespectful and patronising towards them and unfair towards any vet/mentor/person who is willing to help to make those general assumption that new people arent able to clear content because they're to stupid on their own and everyone else is to egositic to help them when neither of those is true.

Ooh. More things to respond to.
Edit / massive post incoming.
I'll attempt to be brief.

Please dont be brief ;_; If we need massive textwalls, can we at least have them well written, thought through and structured properly?

[HyoMinPark]

Please dont be brief ;_; If we need massive textwalls, can we at least have them well written, thought through and structured properly?

Fear not, Vidu, for I was not brief at all!

Le shortcut to my novella of a post; clicky the blue arrow <3

snip

I missed these points, but Istaru basically took the words right out of my mouth, so. :>

[Vidu]

Fear not, Vidu, for I was not brief at all!

Thank you - I am truely amazed by your patience to dissect their comment so well - I cant bring myself to carefully read every sentence by them anymore, I'll admit that much >.<
So, than the twelve for people like you, who are doing it! /bow

And even though I cant be bothered to quote them now, I'd like to point something out: bswpaytons idea or experience that unsyched content is always faceroll might be because they only pick the content that is indeed faceroll and generalise based on that. They have admitted that they never did Coil, as in: the content that doesnt get faceroll easy, so they're basing their experience/opinion on a lack of facts. Something pretty dangerous and short-sighted to do. They're picking the easiest EX-primals to do unsyched (and even those still require mechanics and a minium of attention, as they're even willing to admit) and then draw conclusions from those without having complete data. Maybe its because of my studies at uni or just because I have common sense, but that way of judgment is seriously flawed.


Last thing I'd like to add: I'm a bit sad right now that I dont share data-centers with any of you guys or I would have totally voted for some coil-runs - sychned or unsyched, with new people to get them through and let them learn or not, I wouldnt have cared. Its still awesome content and awesome fights - my friend just went on about how much he loves T9 the other night for 10 minutes - and I always like to re-visit them. I was so, so happy to see that Khloe wants to hear about T13 once in a while, giving me even more of a reason to mobilize my friends and make them do this content with me again :')

[Istaru]

I don't know why I hate myself this much...

I just recently tried to help a fc mate do a2s because I had only done a1s and a4s and would like to get as much alex done sync while I can but the thing is nobody joined Like I mention before.

Funny you mention A2S... I actually hosted a PF for that a few weeks ago to get a glamour item. It took multiple tries to get the 2 people we needed, but with some patience, the party filled on our 2nd or 3rd attempt after like 30 minutes.

But patience seems to be very lacking. You can get people for any content. The only thing is that it may take multiple tries and take time. It won't be start to finish in 10 minutes.

When people come to these forums and say that people dont do this content why dont people listen , just because your friends may be cool about doing stuff many other people arent if you are reaching out to the whole player base as a whole via party finder. There are rules and balances to things just like its a meta in raids like all of this is stuff that the community makes and what they want for the most part to take place in the game happens. Whether that be no nubs in your parties, kicking people for under performing all of that is from a wave of what some players think things should go and others just follow the lead.

You think that people who are able to farm something for what they want, shouldn't do that, they should teach/carry other people so they get what they want instead?

You're upset that people who grossly underperform are kicked from farm parties??? When I'm on a DPS job, worthless, I know, but bear with me please, I am active doing things > 90% of the fight, including the time we are waiting on phase changes. If there is someone who is active only 30% of the time, we should carry them? I'll tell you right now, if everyone performed like that, we would never clear it much less farm it.

I remember I did dun scathe with a fc member was her first time , she died alot the party kicked her despite it not really effecting how the raid was going I said its her first time chill out I get kicked out right after for speakin up for a friend. See thats the kind of nonsense that goes on in this game, and those are the kinda people you have to deal with to do certain content sometimes its just maybe better to get your clear and be fine simply because when people think they are good being an ****hole tends to go with it. Id rather stand up for the little players that just want a chance because I know many that the reason they dont do content is because of egotistic players.

Did you just seriously call us a bunch of aholes? For the most part we have been fairly cordial towards you while you incessantly tell us that we're elitists and more. Now that title too?

If she died a lot, she did affect the raid. She contributed less damage than she should have and it took MP to raise her which further reduces the total damage output from the group.

With that being said, I don't kick new players who mess up easy content like Alexander normal and Dun Scaith. They need to learn the content and video guides don't work for everyone.

A Primal or Savage farm? I'll kick in a moment if it's a farm party.

Do you understand why? Silly me, I already know the answer.

Expectations. If the party description says it is a farm party there are expectations that come with that. Things like you know the fight and can handle the mechanics and you can perform your job well enough for the entire group to clear the content in a reasonable fashion.

If you can't, won't, don't do those things, you are being very rude to the people you are playing with. And to be quite honest, selfish. The very thing you accuse them of being.

So its hard for me to agree with those type of players because of their attitudes.

None of us responding to your ramblings have said to kick new people so don't place that label on us. Thank you very much.

So thats why its easy to agree with op on this post the players that are commenting im sure did coil when it was relevant well its like they have had all this time to do it.

Anyone who has been here any significant length of time has had the chance to do coil. I'm not buying this half baked defense either.

It's easy for you to agree with the OP since their view aligns with yours.

So why shouldn't other people share that experience as well it is just unsync content at what point does it no longer matter anymore. Its not the content its the people, its always the people until that changes in the game it will always be a wedge, thats why I have been a get a clear move on to the next player sometimes its better than dealing with rude vile people.

Have you not read and understood anything that we have been saying??? I don't know why I even typed that. I already know the answer.

None of us that are trying to talk sensibly to you have said that people shouldn't share the experiences we've had.

WE ACTUALLY WANT THEM TO SHARE THE SAME EXPERIENCES WE'VE HAD!!!

Without the mechanics or any chance of failure you cannot have the experiences we've had. I am going to separate and repeat that, it's important.

Without the mechanics or any chance of failure you cannot have the experiences we've had.

Please, stop reading for a moment and let that sink in. I know you won't, but a girl can try, right?

Our memories of our experiences are of our failures to beat the content and the first time we overcame those challenges and finally triumphed.

Anecdotal experience:

I clearly remember my A5S clear. Why?

The MT and I used to tease each other mercilessly, and he would kill me on purpose if the run was a failure and we needed to wipe and start over. Our first clear was ugly. Only 2 people were alive when we cleared it. The MT and I. That was a very long time ago. I'm still friends with that group as their raid crafter and backup healer. Whenever I join them on Discord, everyone remembers that moment.

None of us remember or talk about the clears after that.

Do you know why success and victory feel so awesome?

It is because of the frustration, the tears, the anger that came before that. All those other emotions turn into euphoria and joy when the challenge has been mastered.

Without the spectre of defeat, victory is hollow and meaningless.

Despite how you misrepresent us, I want everyone, even you, to have a taste of that.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

So its hard for me to agree with those type of players because of their attitudes. So thats why its easy to agree with op on this post the players that are commenting im sure did coil when it was relevant well its like they have had all this time to do it. So why shouldn't other people share that experience as well it is just unsync content at what point does it no longer matter anymore. Its not the content its the people, its always the people until that changes in the game it will always be a wedge, thats why I have been a get a clear move on to the next player sometimes its better than dealing with rude vile people.

Look, I get that it's tougher to try and run old content that was once difficult now for a number of reasons. People largely avoided Coil even when it was new because they didn't want to be challenged, they were worried about having a bad experience with other players, couldn't learn/respond to mechanics in time. . . there was a number of reasons why it was tough to get a party for it even back then. This is what Undersized Party options are for; it's purely a means to be able to run old content without having to sit in PF for days and days getting ignored.

Plenty of people have said to try and make a PF if you want to run it synced. As it stands, I always had a standing rule for Coil, "Any Turn, Any Time", and I'll still honor that to this day, synced or unsynced. However I expect people who ask or invite me to be prepared to do it right, UNLESS I'm invited with the intent to help teach. I'm perfectly happy to do that too. I will not carry. I worked too hard to learn the turns and teach others to simply give free passes, again, synced or not.

The issue those of us who experienced it back then have with this entire thread is the misconceptions. Unsyncing anything doesn't guarantee you can clear it. It just gets you in the door without having to wait forever to get a party. You still have to know what to do in there. If you don't, make a PF for a learning party, shout out in Mor Dhona/Idyllshire that you really want to learn the particular content; I can't guarantee you'll find someone, but your chances are pretty high to do so. But you HAVE to be willing to put forth the effort, unsynced or not.

Then there's the idea that it should be easy because it's unsynced. . . In Coil's case, it was a raid. It was originally the toughest challenge the game had to offer, and despite time, better gear, and Echo, it's received several nerfs, which I've listed previously. It really can't get any easier without completely breaking the entire instance. At 60, I can nearly solo T1 as a job that can't heal itself. I would imagine at 70, I can probably handle T1-5 as they are now with no problem. But the biggest reason I can do that - more than simply being well over level - is because I know what to do. You can't slap professional quality football gear on and try to play in a championship game if you've never even learned the rules of football to begin with.

That aside, I have time this weekend. Exodus is on Aether DC, right? "Any Turn, Any Time."

[Istaru]

That aside, I have time this weekend. Exodus is on Aether DC, right? "Any Turn, Any Time."

Sadly, Exodus is not on our Data Center. It's on Primal.

If it was, I'd join you.