Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[Vidu]

These reasons are why I'm so baffled by the OP. Aside from his lack of grammar and proper sentence structure. I don't understand what he thinks nerfing or retuning Coil is going to do. A retune or super-nerf doesn't guarantee that people will queue for it via DF. A lot of new players don't even know about Coil; I know I didn't when I first started playing. Then I met my old FC mates, and would hear them talk about "Coil" and "Turn X" and I finally asked what that was. If anything, I don't think much would change between how Coil DF queues are now, and how they would be if it was reworked.

Even though the rest of your post was a really refreshing read already, I wanted to add something to this because it shows something that OP doesnt seem to be aware of: Coil is, in a sense, "Hidden content" - you have to clear optional content to unlock it. Back then Titan HM was HARD, like really, really failing-to-clear hard. I have a linkshell for "casual raiding" - we created that linkshell back then to have a pool of people who are able to clear Titan HM (and are willing to help out). Today the increased ilvl makes Titan HM a lot, lot easier (even though people still fail to do mechanics, like landslides), but back then it was a real gate and people you could therotically do Coil with was extremly limited. As much as I like this content - I wouldnt want to go back to those days when you had to have a bard do to this content. When they put Final Coil into the DF I queued for T13 just to see if it would work - we didnt got a bard and two whms, so no scholar-shields. Even though we tried it at least it quickly became very clear that people struggled with mechanics and that we needed the shields from scholar. At this point one can ask now "Isnt it bad design when you cant clear a fight because of your party compostion?" - and my answer is: "Maybe - but think about it for a second: it makes for a lot more intresting fights if the devs dont have to design around the assumption that they have to be cleared in just any composition easly." - I do believe that dou-whm in T13 would be possible, even sychend, but more difficult - same goes for dou scholar. The fight was designed with jobs for both of them in mind in a sense because the devs can assume that statics will work together and solve problems like this.
Today, when you go unysch it doesnt matter if you have both healer-types. Heck, one healer is even enough - thats how unsych made this content easier.

Now, except for the T13-episode (thats just supposed to show that DF was never the way for it), why am I talking about this? Because even back in the day, when it was current content, people didnt know about it.
I used the term before, but Coil is - just as Alexander Savage - "special intrest" content for the raiding community. Its locked and hidden behind optional quests in an old location. Unlike the 24man-raids and now Alexander NM it was never supposed to be for everyone but for a very limited group of people who wanted content like that. It doesnt compare at all to 24-man raids and the NM of Alexander because those are specifically for people who'd like to do content thats a bit harder than your normal dungeon.
Coil isnt mandatory, heck, the game doesnt even care wether you do this content or not - it never did. It is there if you want to do it, but if you dont want to, thats absolutly fine too. As weird as it sounds: People not queueing in DF is "working as intended".

If someone has no intrest in a challenge, I can only urge them to stay away from challenges - and specially coil. The devs have learned their lessong about putting story behind the hard raidcontent (and killed my intrest in raiding by doing so - I still like some of the fights, the challenge and specially doing this with my friends ofc - but my "reward" is gone) and most likely wont do it again. Instead of wasting old ressources on old content for no good reason, except to let people even avoid the minimum on effort, there are a lot of better things they can do.

Coil is fine as is.
Its not supposed to be queued in in DF.
Its supposed to have mechanics that you can not fail.
It is supposed to be difficult - if you dont like that: Do anything else in the game, but leave this content alone. Because when I wanted to do content thats difficult, my options are already limited.

Just to explain what happened in T11 in OPs case:

If all three nodes merge they get huge defense and hp regen while doing AoEs (3k damage maybe) non-stop.

You can't kill this uber node and it can't kill you (if you get healed).

But that's only how it looks. Eventually you will die to enrage or healers being oom. So OP wasn't really stuck, he was just dying a very, very slow death.

This is NO bug.

While I would guess that thats most likely what happend aswell (even though he said it was two nodes that merged), I'm willing to give them the benefit of doubt - and reckon a bug possible. Unlikely, but possible - thats why I asked for specific details and specially if it was possible to reproduce the bug or if the same happend after the mechanics were done correctly. Given the lack of knowledge of the fight that OP seems to have, its very likely though that he confused a properly working mechanic with a bug because he didnt know how to handle it.
But in the end we would need more information to decide wether it was a bug or a player error...
Again - I did T11 without encountering anything that shouldnt have happend (except ninjas running into baro-field ;_ three weeks ago or so. No bugs for me there, anything that happpend was supposed to happen. So I can ensure everyone: T11 is not broken.

[bswpayton]

Even though the rest of your post

It may be hidden but it doesn't matter again once the Community not the devs decides something is dead it is dead. And yes it should be challenging but only doing it sync if the community doesnt want to do it sync then why should people suffer through something where they simply just want to view the story. Again so are you going to tell that full time crafter that stays out of your bird farms , that look even this unsync content over here , even tho I barely do it ever it still should be hard and you should still feel the pain of what hard powerful mechanics are.

SE did the best thing possible with alex by not tying the story to the savage part of the raid, hopefully we want have these complaints in sb. But I just dont understand how all of the people in here can say leave the challenge in content that they barely even do. And def aren't tryin to help someone do it sync, stop being nostalgic about stuff coil as it stand now is nothing else than an extra story line that anybody and everybody should have the right to see.

You guys cant have it all on one hand oh dont you dare put my hw trails in pf I dont wana be placed with noobs, and then in the same breathe be like oh dont make content easier for those same people to finally get their chance to do it. To me if the community sets a standard by deeming something dead and pointless then they shouldnt have any say in what else happens to that said content. You cant keep the strangle hold on content forever let other people have what much enjoyment they can find out of doing this stuff.

[HyoMinPark]

It may be hidden but it doesn't matter again once the Community not the devs decides something is dead it is dead.

I would hardly call Coil dead. People still run it for many different reasons. I'm not going to repeat them all, as they've been mentioned throughout this thread multiple times.

And yes it should be challenging but only doing it sync if the community doesnt want to do it sync then why should people suffer through something where they simply just want to view the story.

Let me repeat again: unsynced content =/= automatic faceroll. And if people are only interested in Coil's story, and not the actual content itself, that's why there are cutscenes on YouTube. I'm all for helping people clear Coil (synced or unsynced), but if they aren't going to put any effort into it (yes, I expect effort even running it unsynced), then I won't help them.

Again so are you going to tell that full time crafter that stays out of your bird farms , that look even this unsync content over here , even tho I barely do it ever it still should be hard and you should still feel the pain of what hard powerful mechanics are.

That's hardly what Vidu is saying, and if a person plays this game just for the sole aspect of crafting, it's unlikely that they would be interested in content like Coil or Alexander or Ex primals. People that enjoy just crafting or just gathering seem to only do enough content to progress them through the expansion. They want to craft/gather; not raid.

SE did the best thing possible with alex by not tying the story to the savage part of the raid, hopefully we want have these complaints in sb.

I disagree. Only because the Alexander story was so bland and boring, I didn't bother watching any of the cutscenes after Gordias. It just didn't appeal to me the same way Coil did. But since people seemed to be so unwilling to learn how to put forth the effort into clearing Coil (even unsynced), the developers learned not to tie stories to Savage mode content. It is still worth noting, though, that Coil did not have "Coil Story Mode" and "Coil Savage Mode" (with the exception of Second Coil) like Alexander. I don't really consider this a fair comparison, but that's my opinion.

But I just dont understand how all of the people in here can say leave the challenge in content that they barely even do. And def aren't tryin to help someone do it sync, stop being nostalgic about stuff coil as it stand now is nothing else than an extra story line that anybody and everybody should have the right to see.

I'd hardly say the people in this thread "barely" do Coil. Several have already mentioned they find themselves in one of the turns at least once a week, and I'm sure most of the people here run it, at the very least, for Wonderous Tails. And, I'm sorry. It does not interest me one bit to run a piece of content (old or new) and not have to pay attention to anything, or not be challenged by it. That is not a game for me.

Several have already stated that they like the fact that some Coil turns are still challenging even when running them unsynced. Which again brings me back to my point of unsynced content does not equate to automatic faceroll. Even unsynced, the content is not so hard that it's unclearable. It just requires people to, you know, actually pay attention rather than be alt-tabbed and watching Netflix.

If people just want Coil's story, and refuse to even put any effort into the content: YouTube.

You guys cant have it all on one hand oh dont you dare put my hw trails in pf I dont wana be placed with noobs, and then in the same breathe be like oh dont make content easier for those same people to finally get their chance to do it.

These are not the same things. One thing, the thread we participated in about Heavensward Ex Primals and having options similar to Raid Finder have nothing to do with this thread. At all. I don't even know why you're bringing this up, unless you're still salty that nobody wanted to agree with you.

Unsynced may make Coil easier (just from the fact that we are all overgeared and can skip mechanics or just burn through some of them), but that doesn't mean that it made it so easy that all you need to do is spam your basic combo over and over again, or just use a Regen or HoT here and there to keep people alive while you bounce around the rest of the turn. These people have their chance to run the content. But they don't have the option to be carried through it unsynced (unless they pay for it).

To me if the community sets a standard by deeming something dead and pointless then they shouldnt have any say in what else happens to that said content. You cant keep the strangle hold on content forever let other people have what much enjoyment they can find out of doing this stuff.

I don't even know how to respond to this paragraph. The first sentence alone is just so incredibly mind-boggling, I can't even form a coherent response to it other than lolwut. Just go back and read this entire thread on why people still run Coil. Maybe then it will finally sink in that Coil is not "dead."

It people just want to be able to /follow tanks or spam 1-2-3 in content, well, that's unfortunate because not everything in this game is going to be that way. If you want things to be that easy, why don't you just watch other people stream themselves playing this game. That way you get to enjoy the content, and you don't have to do anything other than use your eyeballs to stare at a screen. And I think that people that just want free rides need to just get over it already. Put forth some damn effort. Stop expecting everything to be so easy just because you're level 60 in full 270 gear. That would make fo an extremely stale game, and I'm going to be honest here: I wouldn't even bother playing it. I'm not paying a subscription every month to be utterly unimpressed or not challenged in the least.

I'm sorry if you seem to find enjoyment in not putting forth any effort, or being able to just faceroll content in your 270 gear. Some of us don't find enjoyment in content where we can just press random buttons and still clear.

[bswpayton]

I would hardly call Coil dead. People still run it for many different reasons. I'm not going to repeat them all, as they've been mentioned throughout this thread multiple times.

Ill start with a reply to the last paragraph because clearly you are mistaken I myself play this game for challenge, the difference is unsync should not be a challenge the feature is and should equal face roll in any form of content. Even after we spoke in last thread I made a learning party and cleared nidhog as well thus leaving me with zurvan to be the only hw primal I havent finished yet I plan to try to finish the last three legs of alex savage as well or attempt.

I do not like only running dungeons or doing easy content like diadum, Im here to challenge myself I dont know where you get the impression that I dont like challenge this is what I love most about the game. The thing about it is the people make things unbearable sometimes, there is no middle ground for a midcore player such as myself either your friends are to casual and dont wana do anything outside of exp roulette and 24 mans. Then your other friends are perfectionist and will start talkin trash as soon as you fail one mechanic. Thus Ive found it best to clear content just like everyone else and just get my scrip gear and be done with it, I know how to play the game, but I am still learning and I can tell how much ive improved over when I first started. Ive never played group up games before this every game I played before this was solo content so I was allowed to learn on my own pace on here not so much. But my point is I strive to beat challenges and to have challenge in the game I would to just like you get very bored if dungeons where the only thing in this game.

But again all unsync content should be the same , gaurda extreme is face roll unsync, ifrit faceroll, ramuh faceroll, thormarch face roll, you can solo any level 50 dungeon for the most party they are all faceroll when you do them unsync at least as tank or heals ( refering to dungeons on the solo part I know that extremes are a different case solo). So this helps people get all their horse mounts ect so then why make coil any different nerf it down to where people can get these rewards just as easy as anything else unsync. Unsync means easy I dont care how you look at it I promise you some people I know would never even clear some of the arr primals sync without gettin frustrated and giving up.

So I know that its people out there that would miss this story in coil because its not what they are use to gettin from unsync content, unsync does in most cases and should mean automatic clear. Aint nobody disbanding on any unsync groups, and the statement about crafters just isnt true alot of the ones I know love the story and what is coil the story. I want to do coil myself but Im just not gona do content that the only realistic option to do it is unsyncing, and nobody is gona run it sync with me, I hate the whole feature period as Ive stated many times on the forums. But its a means to an end and it works so I use it and others do to and they use it with the expectation of automatic clear for little effort. You cant have the same expectations for unsync content as you do sync this tool was made to make things easy so why complain when people are in unsync mood that they want it easy.

There is a reason why people will with open arms do anything with players even people they know are unskilled unsync , but wouldnt dare do the same content with them sync. Nobody wants easy mood at least I dont but when Im unsyncing content I expect and get the equivalent of doing a guildhiest with larger mechanics that can mostly be ignored and thats what people want with coil for it to be like basically like everything else you run unsync an easy clear. And also to add youtube doesn't put your character in those cut scenes so its def not anywhere close to being the same thing if you have attachment to your characters journey in the game

[Vidu]

Ill start with a reply to the last paragraph because clearly you are mistaken I myself play this game for challenge, the difference is unsync should not be a challenge the feature is and should equal face roll in any form of content. Even after we spoke in last thread I made a learning party and cleared nidhog as well thus leaving me with zurvan to be the only hw primal I havent finished yet I plan to try to finish the last three legs of alex savage as well or attempt.


I do not like only running dungeons or doing easy content like diadum, Im here to challenge myself I dont know where you get the impression that I dont like challenge this is what I love most about the game. The thing about it is the people make things unbearable sometimes, there is no middle ground for a midcore player such as myself either your friends are to casual and dont wana do anything outside of exp roulette and 24 mans. Then your other friends are perfectionist and will start talkin trash as soon as you fail one mechanic. Thus Ive found it best to clear content just like everyone else and just get my scrip gear and be done with it, I know how to play the game, but I am still learning and I can tell how much ive improved over when I first started. Ive never played group up games before this every game I played before this was solo content so I was allowed to learn on my own pace on here not so much. But my point is I strive to beat challenges and to have challenge in the game I would to just like you get very bored if dungeons where the only thing in this game.

But again all unsync content should be the same , gaurda extreme is face roll unsync, ifrit faceroll, ramuh faceroll, thormarch face roll, you can solo any level 50 dungeon for the most party they are all faceroll when you do them unsync at least as tank or heals ( refering to dungeons on the solo part I know that extremes are a different case solo). So this helps people get all their horse mounts ect so then why make coil any different nerf it down to where people can get these rewards just as easy as anything else unsync. Unsync means easy I dont care how you look at it I promise you some people I know would never even clear some of the arr primals sync without gettin frustrated and giving up.

So I know that its people out there that would miss this story in coil because its not what they are use to gettin from unsync content, unsync does in most cases and should mean automatic clear. Aint nobody disbanding on any unsync groups, and the statement about crafters just isnt true alot of the ones I know love the story and what is coil the story. I want to do coil myself but Im just not gona do content that the only realistic option to do it is unsyncing, and nobody is gona run it sync with me, I hate the whole feature period as Ive stated many times on the forums. But its a means to an end and it works so I use it and others do to and they use it with the expectation of automatic clear for little effort. You cant have the same expectations for unsync content as you do sync this tool was made to make things easy so why complain when people are in unsync mood that they want it easy.

There is a reason why people will with open arms do anything with players even people they know are unskilled unsync , but wouldnt dare do the same content with them sync. Nobody wants easy mood at least I dont but when Im unsyncing content I expect and get the equivalent of doing a guildhiest with larger mechanics that can mostly be ignored and thats what people want with coil for it to be like basically like everything else you run unsync an easy clear. And also to add youtube doesn't put your character in those cut scenes so its def not anywhere close to being the same thing if you have attachment to your characters journey in the game

I'm having several issues with this post:

1) You're advoacting for a group of people that you assume exists - the group of people who want to see coil, but not actually do it.
2) Following from that: You dont even know if you're doing new people a favour by removing the challenge from the game - you yourself seem to have gotten to a point where you like a challenge now! So how much would that suck for a new person to play through the game, learn their class and then, when they're ready for a challenge, get told "Oh, yeah, we removed half of them already, so you dont have to bother with them - isnt that nice?"
3) Not all unsych content should be the same - pretty much like not all dungeons should be the same.
(Even those primals you've mentioned require you to pay a certain amount of attention: Ramuh and Ifrit shouldnt be pushed to far. Levi will wipe you if you dont use the generator, so even unsyched the main mechanic there is still intact. Shiva can still kill you with her bow if you slide into the wall and become a popsickle...)
4) Unsych =/= faceroll easy. Even unsyched this content can still be a challenge - it always is when you go in with a minimum amount of people or alone.
5) Have you put even the slighted bit of thought into how this would work?
Because answer me this question: Present a solution on how coil can stay challenging content when done synched but gets faceroll easy when done unsyched without the devs spending to much time on it.
The only solution I can come up with is literally: Make a "Coil-story-mode-for-really-really-dumb-people" that has striking dummies instead of the bosses in each arena.

If people have a wrong idea of what unsyched means, maybe its time to fix that idea - not to have the content obey their weird and wrong expectations of what it should be.

Your proposal is patroninsing towards new people, only favours those that dont want to put effort into anything, lacks an understanding of the idea behind "unsyching" content and would require the devs to spend time on outdated content, that is yet still very much playable, if you're willing to put a minimum of time and effort into it.

You are pretending to do new people a favour with this, to be concerned about them - and yet what you're doing and saying is the worst possible for them. You're basically saying "They shouldnt have to put any effort into this game at all if they dont want to!" - this attitude is what brings us dragoons without heavy thrust, non-dps-healers, tanks who dont use cooldowns, bards not using their dots... the list goes on and on and on. Why are we having all of those people who cant even move out of a single AoE in level 60 content? Why are we wiping in Dun Scaith? Because of this attitude - that people, who dont want to put effort into the game and dont want to improve should still be able to enjoy and play as much as someone who isnt watching netflix and the second screen.
You are not helping them by taking away every chance of the game giving them the message "hey, here is something you need to pay attention too!" - you're turning them into spoiled, little brats who cant do anything by themself because they've never learned how to do it and who will eventually get stuck along the way and meet people who are having realsitic expectations of them that they're no where close to meet because they just wiggled through the whole game without ever being faced with a challenge.

...as for the "part of your characters journey" as a counter-argument for YouTube - the fights are a part of that journey. If you dont do them properly - at least to the extend of handeling basic mechanics - and want to turn them into mere striking dummies, your character isnt going onto the journey that coil is.

[bswpayton]

I'm having several issues with this post:

1) You're advoacting for a group of people that you assume exists - the group of people who want to see coil, but not actually do it.

I assume have you not looked at party finder people even run dungeons unsync for their anima when they can do these same level 50 dungeons sync in less than 20 mins. You know why because they dont want any obstacles at that point they want to get in and out to be done with it. People have pony farms up unsnyc always because they want to put as little and as minimal effort in team farming their birds. When people run things unsync thats what its ran for the least resistance the easiest method available is it not? I know for certain people aren't gona be doin any sync bird farms in stormblood.

So lets be honest about this feature people use it because its easy no other reason for using it other wise, yes the person they mention above has a good idea with the teaching method but thats very very rare. Most people even in nn a new player will be like hey I have to do titan hm , the mentor will say do you want a speed kill and they do it unsync. Its very rare that someones gona be like lets get a party together and do this sync, Ive done that but again Im just one person just like the person above. The community has spoken and its clear you see it in pf everyday if its old content and we dont have to do it we want the easiest way to do it possible. And that way is unsync and it will continue to always be the first choice if its available. I mean yea Ive been in some unsync parties where we killed ifrit to fast , or same thing with ramuh but its not the same thing by any means as it is sync. You are so overpowered that you are just taking chunks of health out of them that even if you wipe it will take you all of two mins to get back to the same point you were at where running it sync it would take alot longer to get to that same point. I ignore tones of mechanics in these same two fights Im not worried about breaking someone out of charmed ignored, on ifrit Im not worried about that chain attached to me ignored. I really dont even have to worry about the large wide room aoe or even look for the safespot all of those things can be ignored, and what people are asking for is the ability to ignore mechanics in coil to just because its coil doesn't mean that the option still shouldn't be there again unsync should be the least bit of resistance period if you want the challenge do it sync.

@Istaru
I wouldnt be one of those mentors that left an extreme trail id stay til the end ive stayed with new players wiping on ultima I wouldnt leave but I wouldnt have any high expectations either. I dont do mentor roulette currently havent even finished the story yet cause I have access to the raids and trails so Ill prob do them right before stormblood so I may not get around to mentor roullete. But if I do I would do my best to do these fights Ive cleared them all sync but titan and thormarch so I have a good idea of how they go , Im not gona lie titan is just not something I like but id even stay for that, hes harder to me than some of the alex stuff ive seen cant stand that instance.

[Vidu]

I assume have you not looked at party finder people even run dungeons unsync for their anima when they can do these same level 50 dungeons sync in less than 20 mins. You know why because they dont want any obstacles at that point they want to get in and out to be done with it. People have pony farms up unsnyc always because they want to put as little and as minimal effort in team farming their birds. When people run things unsync thats what its ran for the least resistance the easiest method available is it not? I know for certain people aren't gona be doin any sync bird farms in stormblood.

Well yes, ofc they're going the easiest way possible - but why must the easiest way possible be a striking dummy in an arena?

The main reasons people are doing birdfarms and animagrinds synched is that they're that: Farms and Grinds - both arent excatly difficult, they're just time consuming. I am currently doing my ARR-scholar-relic and I'm at the Zeta-light state; one Mahatma is filled with one TamTara-run, which takes me about 3 minutes atm. Doing this syched wont add to the difficutly of the content at all, it would only add to the time spend.
I still have to put effort into getting my relic though - even if its really old and outdated content. (Oh, you're saying that... I'm doing this for... glamour? Guess what: thats what we've been telling you about in coil the whole time!)

Coil-mechanics unsyched are on a level with dungeon-mechanics, really. If someones going in first time, the only problem is that they're new and dont know how to handle the mechanics yet. The same happens with any other content in the game. Do you have a problem with people wiping at any given boss in an expert dungeon because they dont handle the mechanics? Dont tell me you wont wipe if you completly ignore mechanics and dont tell me that thats just not something that happens.
(Infact: Think about Nidhogg in the Aery - if the healer gets trapped and the dps&tank ignore the mechanic and doesnt free them, its a wipe there. Just the best example that came to my mind right now - even dungeons require you to do mechanics)
We're not asking for people to clear this at minimum ilvl. We're saying that we like the option to do that - and that anyone who doesnt want to, can take the already really, really easy route of unsyching it.
In a sense unsyched Coil can be excatly the content for midcore people you'd like to see: Its a little more challenging than a dungeon, by being a little less forgiving. Its content that you can and should do with a couple of friends; the system even allows you to pick any from 2-7 friends to do this content with, adjusting the level of challenge as you go. It still has nice rewards and great fights. It does not need to be nerfed for the sake of people who cant be bothered to put the slightest amount of effort into it.

Maybe its because of my upbringing but I despite the idea of being rewarded just for attending...

Farming content is a slightly different thing, because the goal here isnt to just clear it but to clear it as fast and often as possible, to have a higher chance of getting your pony.

[Dualgunner]

You know why because they dont want any obstacles at that point they want to get in and out to be done with it. People have pony farms up unsnyc always because they want to put as little and as minimal effort in team farming their birds. When people run things unsync thats what its ran for the least resistance the easiest method available is it not? I know for certain people aren't gona be doin any sync bird farms in stormblood.

What's the argument here? Unsynch *is* the path of least resistance in Coil, unless you're saying somehow unsynching makes Coil harder? I don't recall any mechanics adversely affected by outrageous dps like in Ramuh Ex and Leviathan Ex, the latter of which actually *is* easier to fight synched than unsynched intriguingly enough.

So lets be honest about this feature people use it because its easy no other reason for using it other wise

O teach me Payton Senpai, you clearly know the major use for every major function in the game better than the rest of the playerbase combined.

yes the person they mention above has a good idea with the teaching method but thats very very rare. Most people even in nn a new player will be like hey I have to do titan hm , the mentor will say do you want a speed kill and they do it unsync.

Well that's pretty shitty of the novice network then. I'm not saying I disagree, I'm just saying that's a pretty shitty outlook for the nn.

The community has spoken and its clear you see it in pf everyday if its old content and we dont have to do it we want the easiest way to do it possible.

So if people prefer to do things unsynched, that content in specific is dead? They'll *still* want to do it unsynched even if either of the OP's suggestions are implemented.

And that way is unsync and it will continue to always be the first choice if its available.

I'm not sure of your point atm. You waffle about a lot and it is annoying to try and sift through.

I mean yea Ive been in some unsync parties where we killed ifrit to fast , or same thing with ramuh but its not the same thing by any means as it is sync.

Ah yes! Ifrit thank you, that was another one.

And you're right, unsynch does make the fights entirely different. You're struggling with a very different side of the mechanics than before. But not every fight can be like that (and god help me if they were, holding deeps is painful.)

You are so overpowered that you are just taking chunks of health out of them that even if you wipe it will take you all of two mins to get back to the same point you were at where running it sync it would take alot longer to get to that same point.

The sky is blue, water is wet...

I ignore tones of mechanics

Sig material. Too bad Defias' quote is so much more fun.

in these same two fights Im not worried about breaking someone out of charmed ignored, on ifrit Im not worried about that chain attached to me ignored. I really dont even have to worry about the large wide room aoe or even look for the safespot all of those things can be ignored, and what people are asking for is the ability to ignore mechanics in coil to just because its coil doesn't mean that the option still shouldn't be there again unsync should be the least bit of resistance period if you want the challenge do it sync.

And finally we get to your goddamn point.

Coil Mechanics Unsynch lets me ignore:
Everything T1
Everything T2
T3 don't count but yeah ignore it too
Everything T4
T5: Can ignore neurolinks, kill Asclepius dead before second divebombs even come close to happening, Twin dies before Dreadknight and Twisters.
T6: Everything
Everything in T7. You *can* still pull through petrifying everyone. Though granted, easier to just follow mechanics.
T8: Bumrushed with pure deeps before
T9: Not a lot actually, though skipping Nael to 64%HP before two meteors drop helps a bit. Also burning her add down quickly, and then murdering her before Fire In/Fire Out really starts to be a thing.
T10: You can basically just burn the hell out of this.
T11: Can't skip a lot I can think of here, mostly because it's a more technically minded raid, but burning things down quick helps a lot.
T12: Can literally bumrush this
T13: Can literally bumrush this

Around T13 the average DPS's dps was maybe between 500 and 600 iirc (x4 and not counting tank/healer dps cuz I'm lazy) is between 2000 and 2400.

Nowadays average dps is 2000 on the low end. x 4 is about 8000, around 4x t13 synch dps in the day. There is not a single class that can enter coil at Lv60 i250 that has less hp than even a warrior back in the day, thanks to echo buffs as well.

"If you want challenge do it synch" Fair enough, but there is no challenge to a lot of Coil unsynch anyway. Nerfing it more is pointless because there will always be someone who can't do it. And they'll ask for nerfs. And more nerfs. And more. Until Coil is *nothing* but cinematics. Slippery slope, for sure, but there will never come a day people don't ask for nerfs because they can't do what's already faceroll easy, and you seem to always be on the side of the people who can't and refuse to try.

@Istaru

Not for me, stopped reading here.

[HyoMinPark]

Ill start with a reply to the last paragraph because clearly you are mistaken I myself play this game for challenge, the difference is unsync should not be a challenge the feature is and should equal face roll in any form of content. Even after we spoke in last thread I made a learning party and cleared nidhog as well thus leaving me with zurvan to be the only hw primal I havent finished yet I plan to try to finish the last three legs of alex savage as well or attempt.

Allow me to point out the contradictions in your first paragraph. You play this game for a challenge, and enjoy challenging yourself, yet the minute you deem content "old" or "irrelevant," it needs to be nerfed into oblivion, thereby removing any and all aspects of it being challenging even at a higher level. I hardly doubt that that was what the developers had in mind when they added the Undersized Party feature.

I do not like only running dungeons or doing easy content like diadum, Im here to challenge myself I dont know where you get the impression that I dont like challenge this is what I love most about the game. The thing about it is the people make things unbearable sometimes, there is no middle ground for a midcore player such as myself either your friends are to casual and dont wana do anything outside of exp roulette and 24 mans.

The only thing I agree with in this entire post is that there is a lack of midcore content. But here's why I think that's the case: because the minute the developers add anything that's even remotely challenging (let's use Ozma for an example), people demand that it needs to be nerfed because it's a 24-man boss, and is supposed to be for the "casual" crowd. Ozma is not even that hard, if people bother to do mechanics. But they don't, thereby making it harder than it needs to be.

Then your other friends are perfectionist and will start talkin trash as soon as you fail one mechanic.

Then you have crappy friends. Because I don't have any friends that laugh at me if I screw up one mechanic. I have friends that will laugh with me if we botch a mechanic (like that one time I just walked right off the edge of Sophia Ex). But none that laugh at me. So, my advice: find better friends.

But my point is I strive to beat challenges and to have challenge in the game I would to just like you get very bored if dungeons where the only thing in this game.

Yet you agree with the OP that Coil should be nerfed down to level 50 dungeon difficulty. That's contradicting what you say about enjoying challenges.

But again all unsync content should be the same , gaurda extreme is face roll unsync, ifrit faceroll, ramuh faceroll, thormarch face roll, you can solo any level 50 dungeon for the most party they are all faceroll when you do them unsync at least as tank or heals ( refering to dungeons on the solo part I know that extremes are a different case solo).

While those primals are easier than they used to be, they also involve something else that wasn't an issue when doing them at level: if you push the bosses too hard (i.e., DPS them too hard and too quickly), then you will automatically wipe regardless of if you are Level 50 or Level 60. I find it more challenging to tell myself: "Okay, Hyomin. You can't go ham on Ramuh here. Be careful with your DoTs. They may be too muc--oh. Welp, yeah there were because now I'm dead." You can even DPS Garuda too hard to push her into doing her ultimate too soon. And while that may not kill a tank, it can potentially kill a healer and/or DPS.

And there is a level 50 dungeon that you cannot do solo: Lost City of Amdapor. Because of the first boss. You need two people because someone has to break you out. Also, you can't do Titan HM solo because, once you're gaol'd, the instance resets.

So this helps people get all their horse mounts ect so then why make coil any different nerf it down to where people can get these rewards just as easy as anything else unsync.

Except they can "just as easily get the rewards" as everyone else. It's called "effort." And "following mechanics." I cannot tell you how disappointed I am that Wall Sempai in Thordan Ex and Zurvan Ex does not instantly one-shot you like Wall Sempai does in T5, T9, and T13. That just makes the content easier to survive if you have someone super on top of healing you.

Unsync means easy I dont care how you look at it I promise you some people I know would never even clear some of the arr primals sync without gettin frustrated and giving up.

Nope. It does not. Please tell me where in a thesaurus "unsynced" is synonymous with "easy." I'll wait.

And I guess they just need to git gud. Because I still cleared all of them at level 50 (yes, even Titan Ex) AFTER the content would be considered "irrelevant" by your standards (I cleared in 3.1), AND I was in mostly poetics gear with a few i110 pieces left over. Were they challenging? Yes. Did groups disband when they couldn't clear? Actually no. Most people toughed it out.

So I know that its people out there that would miss this story in coil because its not what they are use to gettin from unsync content, unsync does in most cases and should mean automatic clear.

Again, please find me a thesaurus that puts those two together as synonyms.

Aint nobody disbanding on any unsync groups,

LOL. Clearly you've never been in some of the T9 groups then. "UGH! We can't just clear this by zergging Nael?! We actually have to do mechanics?! I'm so over this!! This isn't a farm party!" /leave

I want to do coil myself but Im just not gona do content that the only realistic option to do it is unsyncing, and nobody is gona run it sync with me,

Insert obligatory "Make a Turn XX Synced/Minimum iLvl Party Finder and/or Linkshell" comment here.

I hate the whole feature period as Ive stated many times on the forums. But its a means to an end and it works so I use it and others do to and they use it with the expectation of automatic clear for little effort.

Yet, you keep advocating for Coil to be nerfed so people can do it unsynced with their eyes closed. This makes absolutely no sense to me. And that expectation is exactly what is wrong with this playerbase: they expect to get everything they want without having to put any effort into working towards it or earning it. That is what I have the biggest problem with.

You cant have the same expectations for unsync content as you do sync this tool was made to make things easy so why complain when people are in unsync mood that they want it easy.

Then I'm sorry for expecting people to actually play this game and at least put forth a little bit of effort. I am such a horrible person for just expecting people to try.

There is a reason why people will with open arms do anything with players even people they know are unskilled unsync , but wouldnt dare do the same content with them sync.

Uh, most the people I meet refuse to carry any player, regardless of content, and regardless if it's unsynced or not. So I don't know where you get the impression people don't mind carrying (unless they're being paid to carry someone, in which case, I don't know who's worse: the carried or the carrier).

Nobody wants easy mood at least I dont but when Im unsyncing content I expect and get the equivalent of doing a guildhiest with larger mechanics that can mostly be ignored and thats what people want with coil for it to be like basically like everything else you run unsync an easy clear.

So many contradictions here. So many. I just highlighted them rather than further elaborate.

And also to add youtube doesn't put your character in those cut scenes so its def not anywhere close to being the same thing if you have attachment to your characters journey in the game

The sad fact of the matter here is that your character is not the focus of the Coil story. Most of the time, they stand in the background observing while others interact (like the majority of older MSQ storylines--only recently have they started giving players the option to choose our character's response to certain things).

I absolutely adore my character--she means a lot to be because of her creation and her history. She represents old friends that I fell out of touch with, but still hope they are doing well, and she represents all the new friends I have made in this game. But the hard truth is that, in this game, our character silently observes, and is never really the focus of the story--the story is usually always about defeating the Empire, ending the Dragonsong War, liberating Ala Mhigo, etc.. The only exception to this is the level 30-50 DRK storyline. That actually focuses on our character; that actually builds on our character, and gives them more depth; makes them more human. Most of this game does not, for we are the Silent Hero, the Warrior of Light.

I'm having several issues with this post

PREACH.

While we're at it why don't we erect walls around The Navel so landslides don't knock us off the platforms in Titan EX anymore. /s

OBVIOUSLY we need to just remove the Landslide mechanic completely. So people can just burn the boss. Also, remove the Gaols, too. They're just too much to deal with.
And while we're at it, let's remove the feature where Leviathan destroys the railings after his ultimate. So people don't fall off anymore. You know, like in "hard" mode. /s

[bswpayton]

Allow me to point out the contradictions in your first paragraph. You play this game for a challenge, and enjoy challenging yourself, yet the minute you deem content "old" or "irrelevant," it needs to be nerfed into oblivion, thereby removing any and all aspects of it being challenging even at a higher level. I hardly doubt that that was what

Im really not contradicting myself tho in sync content for the most part I always put in effort I do same thing every dungeon , whether its copperbell mines are not im pulling the room Im always tryin to better myself and build on my skills. I dont know why people actually think when someones doing something unsync they expect a challenge that comes with it, i dont know SE definition of what they wanted unsync to be.

But the base with I guess everything thing else but coil is basically tank and spank finished, there are very minimal things you have to do to clear an unsync primal or dungeon. So what the op and Im saying is give this same concept to coil, and this isnt the first post ive seen on this in these forums I saw one just the other day where someone was asking the same type thing. Because Im sure their experience with unsync content is burn the boss get the horse, why are we pretending like this isnt what unsync is. Are you calling for a revamp on ravana and bis they arent even unsync yet and can be nerfed into oblivion its no telling how much easier it will be to destroy them in unsync in a few months. You have no problem with them stripping these primals or other instances of their former glory, but yet it seems to be a thing with coil thats I guess held in a different light like we are talking about nerfs here not changing content or creating new stuff.

Im pretty sure to add that extra five percent echo in alex 9s to 12s didnt cost that much and they made adjustments to some of the things the fights did. So pretty much for those whom have trouble with coil remove the type of mechanics that are messing up their experience. No one in here and I dont believe op is askin for any changes to current content. I enjoy dungeons like the vault is one of my favorites, aurum vale is a favorite of mine Id never ask for nerfs.

I go in dun scathe all the time and somehow every other run it seems to be a wipe and nobody asking for nerfs on that I can see. The only crazy post Ive seen about a nerf sense I been reading these forums is potd 50 boss. Nobody even asked for a nerf on soar, like have a bit more faith in your player base but when it comes to old content from what Ive seen nobody cares at that point. And this thread its surprising to see how dear people are holding this one instance that has some really good story in it, but some players may not be able to deal with the mechanics and ud rather tell them to go on youtube and watch it. That doesn't seem very accommodating to me at all.


@Vaer

And to be clear I certainly didnt say it was hard if anything Ive stated that it was laughably easy to run stuff unsync and it should be if you wana run it unsync