Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[HyoMinPark]

But those are kinda different tho more so dps checks , just like in shiva if you dont kill the adds when its sync isnta wipe, same with ramuh.

This can happen in unsynced as well. Like today, I was running the trials for the 270 - 275 relic step with a friend just to help out and make the queue go a little faster for HW trials. With just 4 of us (PLD, double AST, and SMN), Ramuh ended up at 49% before the last add died. Come his ultimate, he wiped the floor with us. King Moogle Mog: did you know if you ignore the smaller moogles unsynced, King Mog will still hit you for a crap ton of damage? It won't necessarily kill you, but it dropped us to around 15% health. I've seen that happened every time I've ran that trial unsynced. I find it entertaining, tbh. Makes it a bit more exciting when you're at 100% and suddenly down to 15%.

Failed DPS checks usually result in wipes. If not wipes, then so much damage the fight is not salvageable, and you might as well wipe. Funny story: while light farming in A1S last weekend, one group I was in had such terrible DPS that we could not down Oppressor in time for self-destruct. That was really entertaining to see. A1S is what I would consider "faceroll" at this point in time, because you don't have to do much other than avoid AOEs and healers just heal through the damage, and usually HoTs are more than enough. And yet, we still managed to wipe in there in that group.

But with unsync your so powerful that you can easily kill adds etc so I wouldnt really use those as an example other than maybe nidhog. You would skip towers on unsync sep as well, like how on ifrit extreme unsync now the nails are the only thing that make him a bit longer than than garuda cause you have to destroy them. Insta kill stuff If i rem in turn 5 when some friends ask me to do it , it was a move that if you didnt move right away or something it was insta wipe so Im guessing the op is talkin about mechanics like that more so than dps checks

Except you can't really use Nidhogg or Sephirot as any sort of comparison because you cannot unsync them yet. You can overgear them, but even overgeared, if you ignore the mechanics, it can still kill you. I would have to go into SephEx again just to see, but I think even at 70, ignoring the towers or the tethers for green/orange, could probably still kill you. If not kill you, then bring you pretty close to it. This isn't counting that you can get punched off if you do the Ping Pong Punches wrong, too (and those hit you for 99,990 damage if you somehow end up under his fist).

As it is now, Seph and Nidhogg can only be pushed so much, but they still don't skip mechanics. Seph, for example, if your DPS is good, you will only see one set of Mad Hops, and one set of green/purple circles before pushing him into adds at ~65%. If DPS is slow, that pattern just repeats until you get to 65%. Nothing is skipped; you just phase change faster. Sophia has mechanics that can be skipped (tankbusters, if you get her to ~74% before adds, she automatically goes into Thunder II and skips the first Quasars). Sephirot does not.


I personally think it would do a great disservice to any content to nerf it beyond recognition. If they turned T13 into a striking dummy battle, where I could just do my opener and wipe the floor with Bahamut Prime, I would feel extremely disappointed. The battle with Bahamut is supposed to be the ultimate battle. It's supposed to be hard. I want it to be hard, even at level 60. Why do you think I usually go into it with 2 or 3 other people? Give me a challenge! I would do it synced if I could ever convince my friends to share my "insanity" (still working hard on that!). Nerfing it anymore is just an insult.

I would actually like to see the devs bring back the bees in Amdapor Keep (would seriously like to experience that since I hear so much about how people complained about it until they removed them), or restore Pharos Sirius to its original difficulty. However, that isn't going to happen.


ADDITION (sorry for the ridiculously long post, but I have reached my 20-A-Day Forum Posts!):

Well who said "nerf" specifically...

I only recall saying either update them for level 60 (soon to be level 70) content... or nerf them to level 50 dungeon mechanics... and to stop leaving them as half assed content no one plays anymore...

Uhm. You did. And I'd hardly call them half-assed considering people still die in T5 and T9 and T13 unsynced, and fail DPS checks.

...because right now they're sitting empty... and getting a que for them is impossible... unlike the way you can easily queue for either Alex or Dun so you will find people to run them as intended. But they're stuck in the half assed phase where they are neither one... nor the other so they're sitting empty.

Alexander + Dun Scaith = current content; also, Story Mode Alexander is way easier than Coil.
Coil = older content that is still amazing, but not a priority for a large amount of players. Coil is on par with Alexander Savage, therefore, not easily puggable with a bunch of randoms. So people go to Party Finder, and usually run them unsynced to try and skip troublesome mechanics (the last part of T9 is zerged through now if you have a decent group).

That said... I do now see this thread as a complete waste of time...

Its become painfully apparent from this thread and many others that most of the people here don't even play this game anymore... they're that out of touch with it at this point. Its like they're stuck in their glory days or living in their own little world.

Lol what. Just because we disagree with your calls for retuning or nerfing Coil, and we're suddenly "out of touch" and "don't play this game anymore?" I mean, I'm sitting here waiting on an Expert queue right now. But I guess that's not actually playing, according to you.

1. I've watched people asking for a total revamp of the Summoner without having any clue how fun or powerful they are right now... or popular for that matter... its like they never played it past 50th.

2. I've watched some asking for uni-sex glamors when the actual ones given are the very ones that are so unpopular people glamor out of them as soon as possible.. while I've seen people into the Glamors, they tend to like screwy pumpkin head or moogle, or Disneyland type Glamors, or showy flashy noble type glamors... ie, anything but unisex. They are obviously just as out of touch and living in their own world.

I don't see how any of that relates to Coil.

3. And in this thread I have some people who seem to have no clue that Coils is old news and not "the latest uber raid", and no one plays it anymore so if you want to make it relevant with the new content its got to change, either up or down, and not stay as some half assed "glory days" wannabe.

Says the person asking developers to take the time to retune the fight to current level standards, or otherwise just nerf it to where you can slam your face on the keyboard and still clear. I don't recall anyone in this thread calling Coil "the latest uber raid." You're the only one who uses that phrase, my friend.

I don't think half the people on this board even play the game seriously anymore... and if I can pick that out... the devs likely can spot it a mile away too...

They likely don't even bother to read these boards anymore.... So its a complete waste of time. The people here are just that out of touch with the actual game as it is now.

Yes. Because that is why we are 50 days away from a new expansion. None of us play this game anymore. Obviously.
And that's also why a recolored Moogle Cap AND the 2014 Fanfest Moogle outfit was just recently added to the MogStation. I mean, it's not like the developers came here and saw the threads asking for it. Just like the didn't see the ones asking for the Chinese outfits, or the Korean outfits, or the emotes. Right.

I'm sorry, but just because no one here is agreeing with you, that doesn't give you any right to just sprout off this...whatever this post is. Stop being upset that no one agrees with you and move on. If this thread isn't worth your time, then why continue to read and post in it?

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

It's been said but the purpose of running content unsynced isn't to make it easy to clear, but easy to run, even if you have to do it alone.

For example: Aurum Vale is one of the most hated dungeons in game, and people still don't like running it. But see, I REALLY REALLY want the Morbol minion or one of the weapon drops at the end for glamour, and I just never was lucky in getting them. I can go in at 60 to get it, but I still have to avoid the poison pools, still can't just pull everything and expect to be just fine, and still have to cleanse the poison stacks at the first and last boss.

The issue here in this thread is that people expect unsyncing to absolve you of performing mechanics that you're already used to by now, and that's just not how it works.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

To be perfectly honest I'd rather have faceroll dungeons for expert/60 roulettes. Those dungeons are (kinda) meant to be run on a daily basis when you're early into a raid cycle, so putting challenging mechanics may actually have negative impact on everyone, if they become too bothersome or difficult that subpar pugs take either very long to clear or just outright unable to clear them. Of course there should be a sweet spot between interesting/challenging and troublesome/annoying, but for something you run everyday it's probably a very thin line. I'm fine with higher difficulty on story trials or even solo encounters, or even new type of challenging light party contents, but I don't really want a hard expert roulette.

I hate to double post, but I can't ignore this.


This is a very serious issue with current endgame dungeon content. The devs, if not Yoshi P himself share this mindset that the "daily level" content shouldn't be too challenging, so they keep the bar low, but this in turn makes for content that quickly gets boring. So they try interesting visuals, but the novelty of those fades and we're left with more of the same. So they try to throw a curveball with a little difficulty in the form of an old mechanic with a new coat of paint, but now people who are used to easy content, or worse, have avoided challenging content don't know how to handle it or adapt. (Side Note: The "Acceleration Bomb" in Ozma and the second boss of Baelsar's Wall's mine attack are both effectively the Blighted Bouquet mechanic from Turn 6, minus the instant kill. The same type of "stop and go" mechanic appears in A10S as well)

This is where the camp is split. For those of us who did push ourselves to face the challenge before, we adapt faster and have less issue with it. But for those who simply want things to remain easy or unchallenging, suddenly level 50 raid mechanics in a level 60 dungeon are "too hard" and people cry for nerfs, unaware that you're already dealing with simplified mechanics, many of which now have large telegraph markers where they once didn't. Things can only get so easy before they're just disproportionate or not even worth the time put into them. And the easier they get, the faster they become boring. Then it becomes a no-win situation for both players and devs. Devs can't challenge players because they don't know and don't want challenge, and players become bored with continuously low-bar content.

This may step on toes to say this, but if you want a better game, YOU (players in general) need to get better.

[RaijinSupreme]

Why you complaining about this old thing?

People must be running out of stuff to complain about.

[Silverquick]

Why you complaining about this old thing?

People must be running out of stuff to complain about.

Well I was hoping to have it updated to level 60/70 content or finally just dropped to actual 50th level normal content to make it relevant again, since no one really runs it anymore.


But you know, after seeing the people here, they apparently really think this thing is "the latest uber raid" and not and old half assed relic from their glory days.... from a level that isn't even relevant anymore.

You can see it in what they say about it... they still honestly believe level 50 is like.... relevant and stuff. But even level 60 will be irrelevant after Stormblood.

Personally I was hoping this old relic could be made relevant in the current content.

But like I said, after seeing the guys in these forums its questionable as to whether they even play this game seriously anymore they're that out of touch.... I'm sure the Devs know that too and no longer even bother coming here, so I agree this is a complete waste of time.

[Settiesama]

But you know, after seeing the people here, they apparently really think this thing is "the latest uber raid" and not and old half assed relic from their glory days.... from a level that isn't even relevant anymore.

You can see it in what they say about it... they still honestly believe level 50 is like.... relevant and stuff.

And this right here shows you haven't even been reading what people have said.

It is still relevant as far as Tails, Glamour, story etc are concerned. It's still fun to do at 60 with the mechanics in place. You CAN still do it synced down as level 50s, just create a party for it... As Coils was originally intended. In fact, it was the only way for a long time. The queues were always long after it's addition to DF, even when it was current content, because doing it with randoms was never good. Being outdated doesn't take away the fact that there is still reasons for doing it outside iLvl.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Well I was hoping to have it updated to level 60/70 content or finally just dropped to actual 50th level normal content to make it relevant again, since no one really runs it anymore.


But you know, after seeing the people here, they apparently really think this thing is "the latest uber raid" and not and old half assed relic from their glory days.... from a level that isn't even relevant anymore.

You can see it in what they say about it... they still honestly believe level 50 is like.... relevant and stuff. But even level 60 will be irrelevant after Stormblood.

Personally I was hoping this old relic could be made relevant in the current content.

But like I said, after seeing the guys in these forums its questionable as to whether they even play this game seriously anymore they're that out of touch.... I'm sure the Devs know that too and no longer even bother coming here, so I agree this is a complete waste of time.

What you continue to refuse to see is that the content IS still level 50. We've explained time, gear, Duty Finder nerfs, and the Echo have made them LESS than what they were. People even explain that bumping it up to 60/70 won't solve the problems you had with the content, it'll just make everything do damage relative to your current level and actually make it tough again.

There's even the fact that the content was made "relevant" again through the addition of the Aetherstones for crafted, dyeable versions of the Binding/Second Coil gear. . . back in 3.2. And AGAIN with Orchestrion rolls. And AGAIN with Wonderous Tails. But none of this absolves anyone from actually having to know what they're doing - just like any other content in game, regardless of level.

I'm not going to mince words: YOU'RE the one who's out of touch. 15 pages of people explaining and you're still spouting crap about "they think this is the latest uber raid" and "it's questionable as to whether they even play this game seriously anymore". Did you ever? Cause it seems to me like you can't even handle a nerfed level 50 raid. And you want it bumped up? Please. You say it's a complete waste of time, but that's simply because you're not hearing what you want to hear. Well sorry, it's not gonna happen. Coil is level 50 content. The mechanics are toned down from what they used to be. If you can't handle nerfed level 50 at level 60, you sure as hell won't be able to handle it at 60. OR 70.

Simply put: Get off whatever high horse you think you're on and get good.

[Dualgunner]

Well I was hoping to have it updated to level 60/70 content or finally just dropped to actual 50th level normal content to make it relevant again, since no one really runs it anymore.

It is actual 50th level content.

But you know, after seeing the people here, they apparently really think this thing is "the latest uber raid" and not and old half assed relic from their glory days.... from a level that isn't even relevant anymore.

Nah they just know how to play the game and don't get caught in mechanics because they do the mechanics correctly.

You can see it in what they say about it... they still honestly believe level 50 is like.... relevant and stuff. But even level 60 will be irrelevant after Stormblood.

It's obviously relevant enough for you to cry for nerfs.

Personally I was hoping this old relic could be made relevant in the current content.

It's relevant to the people who want to do it. It has glams that can't be obtained anywhere else and story that can't be observed anywhere else. By your logic all the ARR EXes should *also* be brought to Lv60 or nerfed to the ground so that they're the same difficulty as a dungeon at 50.

But like I said, after seeing the guys in these forums its questionable as to whether they even play this game seriously anymore they're that out of touch.... I'm sure the Devs know that too and no longer even bother coming here, so I agree this is a complete waste of time.

You young whippersnappers back in my day I had to walk to my raid uphill both ways in the snow...

But seriously though, you're quite a lolcow. It's obvious the guy who doesn't play seriously is you, OP. Instead of learning mechanics and rising to a challenge you cry for the goalposts to be shifted so you can meet it. If you don't find Coil's rewards worth it, then don't do Coil. I personally will be farming FCoB for gear in preparations for Samurai and Red Mage in Stormblood.

[Lambdafish]

Simply put: Get off whatever high horse you think you're on and get good.

/endthread

[Awful]

snip

It doesn't make sense that we get lvl 50 relics in current content, you missed the boat buddy, same as ANY MMO why would I want to run Alex for my 50 and 60 relic? It doesn't make sense and just pads content, makes the story of the relic convoluted, and doesn't make sense that we're getting ilvl 90 relics from before.

We're not out of touch at all that's quite a bold statement coming from someone who can't even clear level 50 content with more then 5 people, you can 2 man T13 but you need to know how the fight works. Clearly you didn't know any of the fights or even looked them up so that's your fault, you came in with your pre conceived notions of "lul I don't need to know this fight!" when you do, and the game should retain that the bar is already as low as it is in terms of player skill.

This isn't a "i'm better than you post" it's a "at least look up the fights before you do anything" post because you're bashing a lot of this content and people when you don't understand why the devs already nerfed the fights, put echo in, and trivialized the challenge.