Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[bswpayton]

Highlithed to make the problem clear: People believe that. Believing something doesnt make it true (sorry all religious people out there).

Again coils a bit different than xander because alex savage doesn't have a story mood where as coil does, there is lots of meat in the story of coil from the five turns I did it looked pretty good. Once this content goes in the trash pile of content thats not done anymore there is simply no reason to have the challenge there once it has been accessible to all. Once you unsync something you have made it known that this content is dead and the certain percentage of people that should have cleared has gone out the window.

You shouldn't have to train for a fight when you take the challenge out of the fight which unsync does, the challenge shouldn't be the same because the only point after unsync is the rewards that comes with it. Like I said Im not nerf happy I have never called for the nerf of any content in the game, but once it goes unsync there should be moods at least for it. If you want challenge for soloing a fight which is basically the only way ull get a challenge now as unsync is currently give us that option. I

f you just simply want the rewards it should be allowed to face roll the content , you cant have a sync run if thats what you want then why have it have any form of challenge at all. The op asked pretty clearly to do the content sync they wanted to, when they ran it unsync they were just there for a purpose to see the story. If the option of running as intended is less than 5 percent then , the other option should be to steamroll it and get it out of the way because it serves no other purpose. Why should someone go look up a guide to a fight we are suppose to be very overpowered to do, current content should never be nerfed but old content that just has rewards attached to it if you gona use a feature that makes you vastly overpowered should be able to be done with as little obstacles as possible.

[Vidu]

Again coils a bit different than xander because alex savage doesn't have a story mood where as coil does, there is lots of meat in the story of coil from the five turns I did it looked pretty good. Once this content goes in the trash pile of content thats not done anymore there is simply no reason to have the challenge there once it has been accessible to all. Once you unsync something you have made it known that this content is dead and the certain percentage of people that should have cleared has gone out the window.

You shouldn't have to train for a fight when you take the challenge out of the fight which unsync does, the challenge shouldn't be the same because the only point after unsync is the rewards that comes with it. Like I said Im not nerf happy I have never called for the nerf of any content in the game, but once it goes unsync there should be moods at least for it. If you want challenge for soloing a fight which is basically the only way ull get a challenge now as unsync is currently give us that option. I

f you just simply want the rewards it should be allowed to face roll the content , you cant have a sync run if thats what you want then why have it have any form of challenge at all. The op asked pretty clearly to do the content sync they wanted to, when they ran it unsync they were just there for a purpose to see the story. If the option of running as intended is less than 5 percent then , the other option should be to steamroll it and get it out of the way because it serves no other purpose. Why should someone go look up a guide to a fight we are suppose to be very overpowered to do, current content should never be nerfed but old content that just has rewards attached to it if you gona use a feature that makes you vastly overpowered should be able to be done with as little obstacles as possible.

1) The reason Alex Savage doesnt has a story mode is excatly that people wanted to see the story, but not a challenge - so they made this compromiss. They wont adjust old content for that though, since that would need more adjustment than just removal of mechanics.
2) Obviously, doing it unsyched does not take the challenge out of the content - which is actually what you're complaining about here: You think doing it unsych should remove the challenge, but thats not the case nor the idea behind it. Its meant to help, yes - not to just clear itself.
3) Unsyching content even offers a new challenge, as you pointed out correctly: Solo'ing or Duo'ing the content - both would require you to really know your mechanics. Doing it unsych with more people just make the fights more forgiving, not faceroll-easy (what they never should be)
4) Where does this logic come from that everyone should be just "handed the content" when they want it? What sort of mind-set is that? Screaming "I want something, give it to me at once and dont ask anything in return!"
When coil was a real challenge, it could easly take you weeks to clear certain fights - today, you'll most likely clear any turn with 5+ level 60 people in less than an hour. And yet wiping to a mechanic, adjusting how you're going to handle that is still to much to ask?! Are you freaking serious?!
5) Are you really asking why people should still be doing mechanics? Are you really suggesting to just put a dummy who doesnt fight back into every coil-arena? Because thats what happens when you remove mechanics... We were never supposed to be overpowered to do these fights - they're obviously not designed with the idea of people coming back 10 levels later and they dont have to be, specially not when the game is offering you to synch your level aswell as your ilvl.
6) If you dont want to deal with mechanics and do nothing but hit a dummy for a little and see the story: YouTube is your friend. Pause after every cutscene, find the nearest dummy, perform one rotation on it, pretend that you just beat Kalia and go on watching! If you however want to experience this content, then the fights with their respective mechanics are a part of that - make your choice.

You are still under the terrible, terrible missconception that if you just wait long enough you'll get everything in the game without putting effort into it...

[sarehptar]

If you just simply want the rewards it should be allowed to face roll the content

If you can't faceroll unsync'd Coil now, there's something wrong with you, not with the game...

As a joke, my friend queued us as one healer, one tank, one DPS into Turn 13 last week and it was still overkill. A good team could easily do it with just two people. (Hell, I bet someone has already solo'd it.) I'm genuinely interested in learning how anyone could struggle with this content anymore... :/

You wiped to an instant-kill mechanic? Okay, respawn and don't do whatever dumb thing you did to get yourself killed again. It takes ten seconds to respawn. You don't have to "train for a fight" or "look up a guide." Just pay like... two seconds of attention?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Neophyte]

It's just a big waste of resources to alter every single content (What about insta wipe mechanics in Ifrit/Garuda/Leviathan/Ramuh due to too high dps??? What about the granite gaol in Titan Hm which is insta wipe if you're alone?) just to make 'unsynched' into 'faceroll'.

'Undersized group' as the name already tells you was implemented to enable people to do the content with less than 8 people and at their current level, precisely because they didn't want to apply individual sophisticated changes to every old content, but still wanted to ease access and make it easier to beat.


Also: Just open up a pf, say 'Txx with bonus unsynch' and throw yourself in the wall and die. Let the others clear the content (they'll be glad if people not able to do meteors kill themselves before that phase anyway), done.
Easy enough?

[Vidu]

It's just a big waste of resources to alter every single content (What about insta wipe mechanics in Ifrit/Garuda/Leviathan/Ramuh due to too high dps??? What about the granite gaol in Titan Hm which is insta wipe if you're alone?)

(Quick note: The goals dont kill you if you have enough HP - they deal about 18k damage, so just make sure to get over that gap - they're not an insta-wipe. When a friend and I dou'd this content with an ilvl of 210 or so his scholar would slap on a few tank-accessorires to survive it. We eventually managed to beat it this way - obviously because... well, we read the fight, figured out the problems and came up with a way of addressing them - which is actually how all content works - sometimes the solution is just harder to find or to execute or the problem doesnt matter anymore - which is whats itching me here the whole time: People asking for careless, dull, mechanicless content...)

[Neophyte]

(Quick note: The goals dont kill you if you have enough HP - they deal about 18k damage, so just make sure to get over that gap - ...)

This only applies to Titan Ex. If you're alone in Titan HM the screen turns black if you get gaol and you lose. Idk, maybe by now you can skip that, but if you get it -> wipe.

__________________

In addition to my other post: Going the way the OP requests would mean to rework every HW fight with release from Stormblood, too. That's what I mean by wasted ressources...
e.g. A1s and even A1n has insta wipe if you don't kill both bosses in a specific time frame (selfdestruct).
Sephiroth Ex has insta wipe if you don't do the 1st set of towers at the colour phase (greens will die and then tethers will oneshot orange ones).
Niddhog ex has insta wipe if you don't gather orbs with red tethers or blue tethers never avoiding damage and either fang or claw explodes.
In Sophia Ex it's insta wipe if you don't go edge on big push or if your group goes accidently to a mirage with Aero-Cast.

Etc...

[bswpayton]

This only applies to Titan Ex. If you're alone in Titan HM the screen turns black if you get gaol and you lose. Idk, maybe by now you can skip that, but if you get it -> wipe.



Etc...

But those are kinda different tho more so dps checks , just like in shiva if you dont kill the adds when its sync isnta wipe, same with ramuh. But with unsync your so powerful that you can easily kill adds etc so I wouldnt really use those as an example other than maybe nidhog. You would skip towers on unsync sep as well, like how on ifrit extreme unsync now the nails are the only thing that make him a bit longer than than garuda cause you have to destroy them. Insta kill stuff If i rem in turn 5 when some friends ask me to do it , it was a move that if you didnt move right away or something it was insta wipe so Im guessing the op is talkin about mechanics like that more so than dps checks

[Vidu]

But those are kinda different tho more so dps checks ,

So "removing" one mechanic - the dps-check is some sort of mechanic that gets removed when you're so overpowered - should equal the removal of all other mechanics too? Where is logic? Where is reason? Nerf-wantu-eh talks nonsense.

(And yes, my bad, I confused the two Titan modes... or, I actually just forgot that thats obviously a problem in the HM since the goal wont resolve itself like it does in EX)

This is just simply messed up to me on the one hand you cant encourage people to say screw this content get on this new content over here. Because you and others have been there to do it , and then say well you cant do it like we did it, but you still should have to work for it. Thats just dum to me if the community doesnt run this content sync then , those that just wana see it simply view it shouldn't have any hurdles in doing so.

I am actually saying: Do it like we did it!
Form a party of like minded people who want to do this content - either synched or unsyched, its up to you! use the PF. Make friends. Join a FC. Ask your FC. Create a linkshell with people who want to do this content. THATS how we did it. And you can still do all of that today - heck, you have cross-world PF and the content in DF, so you dont have to stand at wineport, shouting for a bard for T1 ("must know when to silence and how to feed!")
I dont know where you get the idea from that we just queued up in DF and were done in 20 minutes...

Forming a static can take weeks - thats what we did. And you cry over 30 minutes in the DF...
Judging from all those thread from people who are saying "I want to do this content, but no one else does" it seems there are just a bunch of lonely wolves out there who dont want to put the needed social-effort into the content... I see PF-parties for all turns fill up everyday - dont tell me there arent enough people out there who'd like to do the content - people, who'd also like the content to be a challenge, not just a dummy.

[Neophyte]

But those are kinda different tho more so dps checks , just like in shiva if you dont kill the adds when its sync isnta wipe, same with ramuh. But with unsync your so powerful that you can easily kill adds etc so I wouldnt really use those as an example other than maybe nidhog. You would skip towers onunsync sep as well, like how on ifrit extreme unsync now the nails are the only thing that make him a bit longer than than garuda cause you have to destroy them. Insta kill stuff If i rem in turn 5 when some friends ask me to do it , it was a move that if you didnt move right away or something it was insta wipe so Im guessing the op is talkin about mechanics like that more so than dps checks

You can't skip sephiroth towers probably, he will start with them at ~65% health and just does his rotation without skips.
On Niddhog you can push Fang&Claw though by getting him below 40% before that mechanic.

But does this also apply if you do them with only 2 people?

Doesn't 'faceroll unsynch' include that I can beat Sephiroth ex with 2 people, screw whatever colour mechsnic there is? I shouldn't be affected by my debuff and by what's happening in the fight right now, right?
What if we just don't dps enough to skip, because 6 people fell off the arena?
Wouldn't it be a bit hard to deny a victory then?
Not very faceroll.

[HyoMinPark]

But those are kinda different tho more so dps checks , just like in shiva if you dont kill the adds when its sync isnta wipe, same with ramuh.

This can happen in unsynced as well. Like today, I was running the trials for the 270 - 275 relic step with a friend just to help out and make the queue go a little faster for HW trials. With just 4 of us (PLD, double AST, and SMN), Ramuh ended up at 49% before the last add died. Come his ultimate, he wiped the floor with us. King Moogle Mog: did you know if you ignore the smaller moogles unsynced, King Mog will still hit you for a crap ton of damage? It won't necessarily kill you, but it dropped us to around 15% health. I've seen that happened every time I've ran that trial unsynced. I find it entertaining, tbh. Makes it a bit more exciting when you're at 100% and suddenly down to 15%.

Failed DPS checks usually result in wipes. If not wipes, then so much damage the fight is not salvageable, and you might as well wipe. Funny story: while light farming in A1S last weekend, one group I was in had such terrible DPS that we could not down Oppressor in time for self-destruct. That was really entertaining to see. A1S is what I would consider "faceroll" at this point in time, because you don't have to do much other than avoid AOEs and healers just heal through the damage, and usually HoTs are more than enough. And yet, we still managed to wipe in there in that group.

But with unsync your so powerful that you can easily kill adds etc so I wouldnt really use those as an example other than maybe nidhog. You would skip towers on unsync sep as well, like how on ifrit extreme unsync now the nails are the only thing that make him a bit longer than than garuda cause you have to destroy them. Insta kill stuff If i rem in turn 5 when some friends ask me to do it , it was a move that if you didnt move right away or something it was insta wipe so Im guessing the op is talkin about mechanics like that more so than dps checks

Except you can't really use Nidhogg or Sephirot as any sort of comparison because you cannot unsync them yet. You can overgear them, but even overgeared, if you ignore the mechanics, it can still kill you. I would have to go into SephEx again just to see, but I think even at 70, ignoring the towers or the tethers for green/orange, could probably still kill you. If not kill you, then bring you pretty close to it. This isn't counting that you can get punched off if you do the Ping Pong Punches wrong, too (and those hit you for 99,990 damage if you somehow end up under his fist).

As it is now, Seph and Nidhogg can only be pushed so much, but they still don't skip mechanics. Seph, for example, if your DPS is good, you will only see one set of Mad Hops, and one set of green/purple circles before pushing him into adds at ~65%. If DPS is slow, that pattern just repeats until you get to 65%. Nothing is skipped; you just phase change faster. Sophia has mechanics that can be skipped (tankbusters, if you get her to ~74% before adds, she automatically goes into Thunder II and skips the first Quasars). Sephirot does not.


I personally think it would do a great disservice to any content to nerf it beyond recognition. If they turned T13 into a striking dummy battle, where I could just do my opener and wipe the floor with Bahamut Prime, I would feel extremely disappointed. The battle with Bahamut is supposed to be the ultimate battle. It's supposed to be hard. I want it to be hard, even at level 60. Why do you think I usually go into it with 2 or 3 other people? Give me a challenge! I would do it synced if I could ever convince my friends to share my "insanity" (still working hard on that!). Nerfing it anymore is just an insult.

I would actually like to see the devs bring back the bees in Amdapor Keep (would seriously like to experience that since I hear so much about how people complained about it until they removed them), or restore Pharos Sirius to its original difficulty. However, that isn't going to happen.


ADDITION (sorry for the ridiculously long post, but I have reached my 20-A-Day Forum Posts!):

Well who said "nerf" specifically...

I only recall saying either update them for level 60 (soon to be level 70) content... or nerf them to level 50 dungeon mechanics... and to stop leaving them as half assed content no one plays anymore...

Uhm. You did. And I'd hardly call them half-assed considering people still die in T5 and T9 and T13 unsynced, and fail DPS checks.

...because right now they're sitting empty... and getting a que for them is impossible... unlike the way you can easily queue for either Alex or Dun so you will find people to run them as intended. But they're stuck in the half assed phase where they are neither one... nor the other so they're sitting empty.

Alexander + Dun Scaith = current content; also, Story Mode Alexander is way easier than Coil.
Coil = older content that is still amazing, but not a priority for a large amount of players. Coil is on par with Alexander Savage, therefore, not easily puggable with a bunch of randoms. So people go to Party Finder, and usually run them unsynced to try and skip troublesome mechanics (the last part of T9 is zerged through now if you have a decent group).

That said... I do now see this thread as a complete waste of time...

Its become painfully apparent from this thread and many others that most of the people here don't even play this game anymore... they're that out of touch with it at this point. Its like they're stuck in their glory days or living in their own little world.

Lol what. Just because we disagree with your calls for retuning or nerfing Coil, and we're suddenly "out of touch" and "don't play this game anymore?" I mean, I'm sitting here waiting on an Expert queue right now. But I guess that's not actually playing, according to you.

1. I've watched people asking for a total revamp of the Summoner without having any clue how fun or powerful they are right now... or popular for that matter... its like they never played it past 50th.

2. I've watched some asking for uni-sex glamors when the actual ones given are the very ones that are so unpopular people glamor out of them as soon as possible.. while I've seen people into the Glamors, they tend to like screwy pumpkin head or moogle, or Disneyland type Glamors, or showy flashy noble type glamors... ie, anything but unisex. They are obviously just as out of touch and living in their own world.

I don't see how any of that relates to Coil.

3. And in this thread I have some people who seem to have no clue that Coils is old news and not "the latest uber raid", and no one plays it anymore so if you want to make it relevant with the new content its got to change, either up or down, and not stay as some half assed "glory days" wannabe.

Says the person asking developers to take the time to retune the fight to current level standards, or otherwise just nerf it to where you can slam your face on the keyboard and still clear. I don't recall anyone in this thread calling Coil "the latest uber raid." You're the only one who uses that phrase, my friend.

I don't think half the people on this board even play the game seriously anymore... and if I can pick that out... the devs likely can spot it a mile away too...

They likely don't even bother to read these boards anymore.... So its a complete waste of time. The people here are just that out of touch with the actual game as it is now.

Yes. Because that is why we are 50 days away from a new expansion. None of us play this game anymore. Obviously.
And that's also why a recolored Moogle Cap AND the 2014 Fanfest Moogle outfit was just recently added to the MogStation. I mean, it's not like the developers came here and saw the threads asking for it. Just like the didn't see the ones asking for the Chinese outfits, or the Korean outfits, or the emotes. Right.

I'm sorry, but just because no one here is agreeing with you, that doesn't give you any right to just sprout off this...whatever this post is. Stop being upset that no one agrees with you and move on. If this thread isn't worth your time, then why continue to read and post in it?