Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[aleph_null]

Some of the hardest contents in this game aren't really meant for DF (look at alex savage for example), coil was such content for lv 50. The devs put everything other than the latest raid tier into DF, after nerfing some of the mechanics, but some floors don't outright become faceroll after the nerf. Some of the floors are outright impossible to clear without hours of practice (see a8s), which is why I hope they'd put all raid contents in RF since there are separate queues for practice and clear, but that's a separate discussion. They're incredibly difficult to run at lv 50 because they were meant to be the most challenging contents at the time. Coils and alex savage are completely different type of contents from dungeons, normal mode raids and 24 man raids. They are/were meant to be difficult.

Generally the devs don't seem to want to put much effort into outdated contents. As I've mentioned in a previous post some lv 50 ex trials would trigger instant wipe mechanics due to excessive dps, and sometimes you really need to stop attacking and stand still for a while just to avoid that, which clearly is a bad design for a game that allows overgearing. You just need to find a way to work around the mechanics.

[Vaer]

Now back to reality...
Honestly I don't know... Nothing happen... we were stuck there... nothing moved... nothing destroyed us...

Either the mechanic is broken if it can't kill you... (which is probable given we were level i240)...

Going by your posts, I'm guessing the hard enrage doesn't do enough damage (It's probably set to an unreachable HP number when content is current but since our HP is so high now it doesn't do enough damage) and the script stalls because your group should be dead. That should probably be fixed if that is the case to actually instantly wipe. I guess you got out by having your entire group dc?

[Gemina]

The reason why I personally would like for coils to remain relevant is because... well it's Bahamut. He's arguably square's most iconic summon and my all-time favorite. He gets more powerful in terms of lore with every FF installment, and he should never be able to be facerolled.

I haven't done this raid, and want to, but never wanted to do it unsynced. It is actually a relief that many posts in this thread have pointed out that there are still mechanics that cannot be ignored even if running unsynced with 60's at a high item level.

[HyoMinPark]

Yeah yeah I get it you're like totally awesome... there... your customary ego feeding... so you can feel good about yourself.

Absolutely uncalled for. Do you think this sort of behavior is going to get people here to take you seriously and agree with you, much less the game's developers?

Now back to reality...
Honestly I don't know... Nothing happen... we were stuck there... nothing moved... nothing destroyed us...

Either the mechanic is broken if it can't kill you... (which is probable given we were level i240)...

It's quite possible that some mechanics that could one-shot people "back in the day" can no longer do so because the maximum damage was set to 9,999. An example of this would be King Behemoth's Ecliptic Meteor in LotA. If you are a WAR with 10,000 or higher HP, you can survive that attack without having to stand behind the comets.

Be that as it may, you could have just died and reset. Stepping into the center during the add phase will still kill you. Plus, I believe that phase is a DPS check, and if you don't meet it, the fight will still progress into the next phase. Although, as for what happens (massive damage or just instant death), I can't really say.

Even overgeared, Coil still has mechanics that can result in a wipe. Something that I rather enjoy because it means you still have to pay attention, and not just slam your face on the keyboard and clear it.

Or... *shock*.. *boggle*

The content was not designed to be run at level 60. Ergo... you probably need to be 50th level or things like that will happen...

I mean, that makes sense. Considering Coil was designed to be, and released as, the raid tier when the level cap was 50, and the max item level you could have by the end of ARR was only i130. So it would make sense that level 60 players in i240+ gear will be OP for the content. However, that doesn't make some of the fights (or their mechanics) trivial. Ignore enough of them, and you can still wipe.

And WHY is it incredibly difficult to run it at 50th level?

Whoa!! DuDE!! No one queues for it so you can't get a full 8 man group... what a frigging concept... one would think this is easy to understand...

I don't understand why the concept of "Use the Party Finder to get a group together" is such a foreign concept for people. That's what it's there for. Make use of it instead of just queuing via DF for content that others are not focused on running, and then complain when the queue doesn't pop. Want a faster queue? Use Party Finder.

So either make it level 50 appropriate... for THIS day and age... or bump it up to level 60 so we can get queues again...

If you want to be "level 50 appropriate", go grab some gear that just meets the minimum ilvl for each turn, and queue in (using that mystical thing called Party Finder to get your group together).

Redesigning Coil to be "level 60 appropriate" doesn't guarantee people will queue for it via Duty Finder anyway. Consider Thordan Ex and Sephirot Ex before the Raid Finder was introduced. DF queues took forever because those fights were not easily PUG-able. And really, they still aren't, but to a lesser degree than before. So, people would just put up Party Finders instead. If Coil was redesigned, it could very well be the same, considering that it was designed to be the Alexander Savage of ARR.

(Even with all the current Savage raids and Ex primals in DF--excluding Zurvan--people still tend to use Party Finder anyways.)

You know... like the ones in Alexander... Void Ark... Mhach... Dun Scaith.... heck even Crystal Tower...

Considering all of those are, in some way, used for current end-game progression (gear augmentation and relic quest, specifically), it would make sense that people are queuing up for them. Alexander gives i250 gear for those that just want to bridge the gap between a lower ilvl and a (semi) more current one, and some of the stats on the Prototype Alexandian gear are better than Shire. Void Ark, Weeping City, and Dun Scaith are all required to get the items you need to augment Shire gear, and Dun Scaith drops i260 gear. Crystal Tower is used for the weekly "Gift of the Archmagus" quest to give you an Aether Oil if you don't want to spend 700 Lore on it. And those are used for the 210-230 Anima step.

Compare these to Coil, and you don't really have a ground to stand on, because it's not a fair comparison. Coil is not used for current progression, but for other reasons such as Poetic bonus, glamour, the amazing story, tank mount farming, or just to challenge yourself. People are less likely to spend time focusing on that, and more time focusing on gearing up for Stormblood. Especially with the release date being less than two months away.

[SenorPatty]

The reason why I personally would like for coils to remain relevant is because... well it's Bahamut. He's arguably square's most iconic summon and my all-time favorite. He gets more powerful in terms of lore with every FF installment, and he should never be able to be facerolled.

I haven't done this raid, and want to, but never wanted to do it unsynced. It is actually a relief that many posts in this thread have pointed out that there are still mechanics that cannot be ignored even if running unsynced with 60's at a high item level.

That's what makes it so great. Cuz even when you complete it the first time unsynched, you still can feel some sort of accomplishment and at the same time find a new level of respect for anyone that cleared it the first time around.

I can't name any names but I still want to give a shoutout to this SCH-mentor too at that- on my server, who stuck it out with me and explained the mechs with me and a few others as we did t5-t13 together. The learning experience was fun and so was the story to boot.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Well there was this part in the 2nd turn of the Final Coil,
We'd made it through the other insta death mechanics eventually, but then we got to this part with these Orbs that appear, and each one is different... apparently you need to tank two of them which we only had one tank unsynced...

And we'd beat down one, but apparently when it touches the other one some raid wipe mechanic is supposed to go off..

Well it did, but couldn't kill us so we were just stuck...

I tried to use Titan to tank one of them while the actual Tank took the other one...

But one of them got away apparently and jammed up everything... so we were whacking on this other one that was invulnerable and nothing could be killed at that point so we were basically stuck and it won't go any further...

If I could have queued with a full party (aka duty finder) I'm sure we could have handled it, but with only 1 tank 1 healer and 3 DPS we didn't have the numbers to do it even unsynced.

I am guessing you were still getting some sort of heals, as we did the fight last night and we wiped eventually. As for the mechanics they are easily figured out due to the echo and being unsynced.

[Bloody]

Dude...this typing...I can't... even.....

[Silverquick]

Absolutely uncalled for. Do you think this sort of behavior is going to get people here to take you seriously and agree with you, much less the game's developers?

Yeah no... Don't even go there... he's the one who started in with his "You're not uber enough" bs...

Yeah back in like, the day and stuff, this might have been something "uber" but now... its errm... like 50th level... yeah yesterdays news.

This has nothing to do with any kind of uber... it has to do with the fact you can't que for this one and do it normally anymore.

If it were either updated with level 60 gear, and the challenge level upgraded appropriately you might see people start doing it again. Or just drop it down to the normal 50th level content as its not relevent as some kind of uber top level raid anymore... so... no one does it.

Ergo... if you really want to do this, you're not going to be able to do it in the normal way anymore.

Ie, I just queue up for Alex, or Dun... and hey I'm in. Can't do that with this one until they either upgrade it... or downgrade it...

Take your choice, because right now its neither one... and it sure the heck isn't the top grade raid anymore.

[Settiesama]

Ergo... if you really want to do this, you're not going to be able to do it in the normal way anymore.

Ie, I just queue up for Alex, or Dun... and hey I'm in. Can't do that with this one until they either upgrade it... or downgrade it...

At the start, you couldn't just 'queue up' for Coils without having a full party pre-made anyway. Only when the content was old did they put it on DF for solo queue. Even then, chances to clear it when on DF was almost zilch, especially when it came to the likes of T9.
The main reason people don't queue for it now on DF is mainly that same reason, joining a bunch of random people for an almost certain wipe. Why risk the time and pain of trying to do content like that when you can just go in pre-made like it was originally intended and also at a much higher level to reduce the time spent?

[Silverquick]

you can just go in pre-made like it was originally intended and also at a much higher level to reduce the time spent?

Yeah I tried that, but as you can see the insta kill mechanics just broke it, and stranded us.