Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[Vidu]

Well there was this part in the 2nd turn of the Final Coil,
We'd made it through the other insta death mechanics eventually, but then we got to this part with these Orbs that appear, and each one is different... apparently you need to tank two of them which we only had one tank unsynced...

You need to tanke the sphere and the cube, yes - egg cant be tanked, but will move around the room. A level 60 mage should be in charge of the cube here, and serve both as a tank and as the person whos damaging it down. Tank the ball - and move both adds so they wont come close to each other or near the egg (that automatically moves).

From your description it sounds as if you were very unsure how mechanics work in the fight and instead expected them to not matter, like every other content in the game where you can just ignore them. Instead of nerfing content by making mechanics meanigless we should really start to ask for relevant mechanics in day-to-day-content so people will stop whining when they actually have to do something.

FYI: Two friends of mine and I three man'ed T12 a year ago - we had so, so much fun with it, figuring out a good composition to handle the content (we might went PLD, DRG, SCH, not sure anymore...) and new ways to deal with mechanics now. It was a challenge and it took us a few tries, but I cant tell you how much we enjoyed it!

If you dont want to challenge yourself: Please, just stay away from content that is meant to be a challenge. Its okay. You dont have to see everything in the game if you dont like certain aspects. But please, please dont ruin it for those people who enjoy to do more than press 3 buttons to get through any content.
My friends and I are actually planning to go back into coil - we got 2 months til Stormblood, nothing to do anymore and are very curious if we can still handle the difficult content this game has to offer!

Really?

Then why exactly did the mechanic jam up and freeze the entire fight so we were stuck there?

What mechanic are you talking about?

[Silverquick]

What mechanic are you talking about?

The very one you just described... I soloed one of the Cube... the other Tank was supposed to take the other one...

I'm thinking the egg touched the other one... but at that point some mechanic went off... and jammed up the entire instance. We were stuck there with and couldn't kill anything anymore.

He said this was supposed to be some kind of raid wipe mechanic... but we were too strong for it...

So it basically locked up the entire instance instead.

[Vaer]

The very one you just described... I soloed one of the Cube... the other Tank was supposed to take the other one...

I'm thinking the egg touched the other one... but at that point some mechanic went off... and jammed up the entire instance. We were suck there with and couldn't kill anything anymore.

He said this was supposed to be some kind of raid wipe mechanic... but we were too strong for it...

So it basically locked up the entire instance instead.

Both adds have to be killed around the same time, once one of them dies the other one will immediately head for the egg and is uncontrollable and attempt to merge. Cube takes less physical damage and sphere takes less magical damage. Not a big deal anymore since DPS should be through the roof unsync anyway. After that, you need to be in melee range to damage the egg. The boss will come back and you can probably faceroll the rest.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The very one you just described... I soloed one of the Cube... the other Tank was supposed to take the other one...

I'm thinking the egg touched the other one... but at that point some mechanic went off... and jammed up the entire instance. We were suck there with and couldn't kill anything anymore.

He said this was supposed to be some kind of raid wipe mechanic... but we were too strong for it...

So it basically locked up the entire instance instead.

T11 is one of the turns I warn people all the time can't simply be overgeared. Mechanics still apply.

During add phase, the cube is physical resistant (less so now that it doesn't matter), and the sphere is magic resistant. The cube has less HP, so it can die faster. Both the cube and sphere need to die at roughly the same time (this was something first experienced in T1 with the split snakes), or the remaining one tries to merge with the egg and will take on its properties. The egg freely moves counter clockwise around the room, and needs to be kept away from the cube or sphere. Once both are down, attack the egg, but it can ONLY be damaged from melee range (even if a BRD/MCH, even if a caster).

During this a T9 style Thunder aoe will be placed on a player and that person needs to clear away from the group or risk hitting and paralyzing others. And there will be line aoes to dodge as well.

Many of these mechanics, as I said before, are being reused even in normal content now. It was only T11 that severely punished you for failing them, both then and now.

[Vidu]

The very one you just described... I soloed one of the Cube... the other Tank was supposed to take the other one...

I'm thinking the egg touched the other one... but at that point some mechanic went off... and jammed up the entire instance. We were suck there with and couldn't kill anything anymore.

He said this was supposed to be some kind of raid wipe mechanic... but we were too strong for it...

So it basically locked up the entire instance instead.

I can see two scenarios here:

1) It was simply a bug that shouldnt have happend - that wouldnt require nerfing the fight but fixing that bug
2) If two of the adds touch and one consumes the other one the one that remains gets huge buffs - more HP, more defense, regen... I dont remember all of them. Its getting really, really difficult to kill it at that point, which is why you always want to make sure to keep them apart from each other. If thats what happend: You failed a mechanic and got punished for that. You can wipe in level 60 content if you dont do mechanics correctly aswell - why should they be removed in any content thats below 60? Should we remove mechanics in Sastasha too?
-> after a timer runs out, Kalia will cast "nerve gas" (...or was it nerve cloud...), another mechanic that deals damage based on how much HP the adds have left still (if you havent killed all of them, it used to be an insta-wipe) and puts a vul-stack on everyone. (We used to deal with this by shielding everyone) - so if thats what happend: its supposed to be a dps-check, not an insta-wipe. You can now survive that, if you fail to make the DPS-check.

What do you mean with "locked up the entire instance"? I dont really understand what thats supposed to mean? Did it stay sealed even after you wiped or what? Did the boss freeze and didnt do anything anymore? If you just couldnt kill the remaining add - well, to bad for failing a mechanic. Sorry to break it to you: Not everything is faceroll easy - and it shouldnt be.

I hope you dont mind me saying this but you dont seem to have the mind of someone who should raid - you failed a mechanic and your approach isnt "Okay, we wiped, why did that happen and how can we avoid it the next time? What did we do wrong? How are we supposed to handle this?" but instead its "OMG WE COULDNT FACEROLL! NERF! NERF!"
If you cant handle a challenge and mechanics: Stay out of content that is challenge and mechanics.

[Silverquick]

If you cant handle a challenge and mechanics: Stay out of content that is challenge and mechanics.

Yeah yeah I get it you're like totally awesome... there... your customary ego feeding... so you can feel good about yourself.

Now back to reality...
Honestly I don't know... Nothing happen... we were stuck there... nothing moved... nothing destroyed us...

Either the mechanic is broken if it can't kill you... (which is probable given we were level i240)...

Or... *shock*.. *boggle*

The content was not designed to be run at level 60. Ergo... you probably need to be 50th level or things like that will happen...

And WHY is it incredibly difficult to run it at 50th level?

Whoa!! DuDE!! No one queues for it so you can't get a full 8 man group... what a frigging concept... one would think this is easy to understand...

So either make it level 50 appropriate... for THIS day and age... or bump it up to level 60 so we can get queues again...

You know... like the ones in Alexander... Void Ark... Mhach... Dun Scaith.... heck even Crystal Tower...

Then one MIGHT just be able to do it normally without it hosing up like that.

[Vidu]

Then one MIGHT just be able to do it normally without it hosing up like that.

Doing this content "normally" aka "how it was supposed to be" is: Get a full team of people who know each other and who know the strategy.

Seriously, stop blaming you being level 60 for you failing mechanics - if you dont know how to handle them unsychd, what makes you believe you'd be better off doing this content "normally" on level 50 when you cant handle it at level 60?

Yes, doing this fights at level 60 breaks them - but guess what: YOU choose to do that :O
The devs have given you the means to break and destroy this content for yourself. If you do that - thats your choice. It doesnt even make the content unplayable - it just changes mechanics in a way and you need to learn how to handle those changes - or, in your case, how to handle mechanics at all.

Btw - I tried to do T11 myself with a bunch of firsttimers who ignored any mechanic-advice I gave them. We kinda managed to get three out of 7 people through the add-phase alive. Nothing froze for us. Instanced didnt break. Nothing went invulnerable when it wasnt supposed to be. Nothing, that should have wiped us, didnt wipe us... so... you might have just expereciend a bug or something like that *shrug*

Yes, the reason people dont queue for this is that the content is difficult. Nothing wrong with difficult content. Are you also upset that its most likely useless to queue up for A12S?

MAKE a full 8-man-group yourself. Find like minded people! Create a LS with people who'd like to dedicate an evening to do this content. Dont expect the game to hand everything to you on a silverplate...

[Vaer]

Now back to reality...
Honestly I don't know... Nothing happen... we were stuck there... nothing moved... nothing destroyed us...

Either the mechanic is broken if it can't kill you... (which is probable given we were level i240)...

Going by your posts, I'm guessing the hard enrage doesn't do enough damage (It's probably set to an unreachable HP number when content is current but since our HP is so high now it doesn't do enough damage) and the script stalls because your group should be dead. That should probably be fixed if that is the case to actually instantly wipe. I guess you got out by having your entire group dc?

[HyoMinPark]

Yeah yeah I get it you're like totally awesome... there... your customary ego feeding... so you can feel good about yourself.

Absolutely uncalled for. Do you think this sort of behavior is going to get people here to take you seriously and agree with you, much less the game's developers?

Now back to reality...
Honestly I don't know... Nothing happen... we were stuck there... nothing moved... nothing destroyed us...

Either the mechanic is broken if it can't kill you... (which is probable given we were level i240)...

It's quite possible that some mechanics that could one-shot people "back in the day" can no longer do so because the maximum damage was set to 9,999. An example of this would be King Behemoth's Ecliptic Meteor in LotA. If you are a WAR with 10,000 or higher HP, you can survive that attack without having to stand behind the comets.

Be that as it may, you could have just died and reset. Stepping into the center during the add phase will still kill you. Plus, I believe that phase is a DPS check, and if you don't meet it, the fight will still progress into the next phase. Although, as for what happens (massive damage or just instant death), I can't really say.

Even overgeared, Coil still has mechanics that can result in a wipe. Something that I rather enjoy because it means you still have to pay attention, and not just slam your face on the keyboard and clear it.

Or... *shock*.. *boggle*

The content was not designed to be run at level 60. Ergo... you probably need to be 50th level or things like that will happen...

I mean, that makes sense. Considering Coil was designed to be, and released as, the raid tier when the level cap was 50, and the max item level you could have by the end of ARR was only i130. So it would make sense that level 60 players in i240+ gear will be OP for the content. However, that doesn't make some of the fights (or their mechanics) trivial. Ignore enough of them, and you can still wipe.

And WHY is it incredibly difficult to run it at 50th level?

Whoa!! DuDE!! No one queues for it so you can't get a full 8 man group... what a frigging concept... one would think this is easy to understand...

I don't understand why the concept of "Use the Party Finder to get a group together" is such a foreign concept for people. That's what it's there for. Make use of it instead of just queuing via DF for content that others are not focused on running, and then complain when the queue doesn't pop. Want a faster queue? Use Party Finder.

So either make it level 50 appropriate... for THIS day and age... or bump it up to level 60 so we can get queues again...

If you want to be "level 50 appropriate", go grab some gear that just meets the minimum ilvl for each turn, and queue in (using that mystical thing called Party Finder to get your group together).

Redesigning Coil to be "level 60 appropriate" doesn't guarantee people will queue for it via Duty Finder anyway. Consider Thordan Ex and Sephirot Ex before the Raid Finder was introduced. DF queues took forever because those fights were not easily PUG-able. And really, they still aren't, but to a lesser degree than before. So, people would just put up Party Finders instead. If Coil was redesigned, it could very well be the same, considering that it was designed to be the Alexander Savage of ARR.

(Even with all the current Savage raids and Ex primals in DF--excluding Zurvan--people still tend to use Party Finder anyways.)

You know... like the ones in Alexander... Void Ark... Mhach... Dun Scaith.... heck even Crystal Tower...

Considering all of those are, in some way, used for current end-game progression (gear augmentation and relic quest, specifically), it would make sense that people are queuing up for them. Alexander gives i250 gear for those that just want to bridge the gap between a lower ilvl and a (semi) more current one, and some of the stats on the Prototype Alexandian gear are better than Shire. Void Ark, Weeping City, and Dun Scaith are all required to get the items you need to augment Shire gear, and Dun Scaith drops i260 gear. Crystal Tower is used for the weekly "Gift of the Archmagus" quest to give you an Aether Oil if you don't want to spend 700 Lore on it. And those are used for the 210-230 Anima step.

Compare these to Coil, and you don't really have a ground to stand on, because it's not a fair comparison. Coil is not used for current progression, but for other reasons such as Poetic bonus, glamour, the amazing story, tank mount farming, or just to challenge yourself. People are less likely to spend time focusing on that, and more time focusing on gearing up for Stormblood. Especially with the release date being less than two months away.

[Silverquick]

Absolutely uncalled for. Do you think this sort of behavior is going to get people here to take you seriously and agree with you, much less the game's developers?

Yeah no... Don't even go there... he's the one who started in with his "You're not uber enough" bs...

Yeah back in like, the day and stuff, this might have been something "uber" but now... its errm... like 50th level... yeah yesterdays news.

This has nothing to do with any kind of uber... it has to do with the fact you can't que for this one and do it normally anymore.

If it were either updated with level 60 gear, and the challenge level upgraded appropriately you might see people start doing it again. Or just drop it down to the normal 50th level content as its not relevent as some kind of uber top level raid anymore... so... no one does it.

Ergo... if you really want to do this, you're not going to be able to do it in the normal way anymore.

Ie, I just queue up for Alex, or Dun... and hey I'm in. Can't do that with this one until they either upgrade it... or downgrade it...

Take your choice, because right now its neither one... and it sure the heck isn't the top grade raid anymore.