Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[Ririta]

It doesn't matter if the content is current or from 2 years ago. And if you wanna argue content is optional that could apply to literally any content in the game. Guess we should just nerf everything right?

And as an aside, it also kinda annoys me when people say content is no longer relevant. Content may not be relevant to me but there are always new players coming up from the bottom that the "old" content is still relevant to. I would argue content is always relevant as long as identical rewards are not placed in easier content and even then people don't always run it for the rewards.




Yes...it does. If you can't clear it at level 60 it just means you need to learn the fight or you are, to be blunt, bad.

Most Coil fights were already nerfed to the ground, and as OP said, queues never pop. It's not relevant to new players in any way, this character haven't stepped foot on Coil and she's not missing anything.

[HyoMinPark]

So while I can que for Alexander, Void Ark, Mhach, Dun Scaith and shockingly Crystal Tower... and run it any given time... even at the level appropriate... Bahamet is the only exception... ergo.. there's a problem here... the challenge level does not fit the current level its assigned to...

Except this is not "current level" content. Crystal Tower isn't either, but people run it usually for WT or for the weekly aether oil. And CT can be super facerolled, with the exception of WoD (which was probably still harder back at level/ilvl for it).

I don't see what's so wrong about actually learning a fight and it's mechanics. For dated content or for current content. You're mentioning Bahamut, but that's the exact reason it should be hard. Bahamut caused the Calamity that shook Eorzea to its core. Why would you want him to be faceroll? Coil was the equivalent to Alexander Savage back in the day (SCoB Savage was for those who truly wanted to push themselves). It's not designed to be pugged in Duty Finder. Just like Alex Savage is not designed to be pugged either, but rather ran with a static (although Creator Savage is not too too hard to PUG for some tiers).

@Ririta: T9 is not that difficult if people actually bother to follow mechanics. Half the time they aren't dying to Nael, but to not handling meteors correctly, or letting the golems get too close to each other.

And why even nerf "optional" content anyways. You could use that argument to argue against nerfing. It's not "required" to progress through the MSQ. It won't be "required" for 4.0, or any other subsequent expansion. And, even if it is the most amazing piece of content in this game, it is still not current content, which is what the developers should be focusing on. Not nerfing older content that's easy now if people just do mechanics.

Most Coil fights were already nerfed to the ground, and as OP said, queues never pop. It's not relevant to new players in any way, this character haven't stepped foot on Coil and she's not missing anything.

That's your opinion. If it's so irrelevant, why bother with changing it, or nerfing it more than it already has been? Coil wasn't designed for PUGs/DF anyways. And aside from having the best storyline in the game, there are not enough "incentives" for people to want to PUG it at level, unless they just want to do it for fun, or to challenge themselves. In which case, they make a PF.

But I find that finding players that would want to do sync'd/minimum ilvl Coil for funnsies are, unfortunately, few and far between (they're out there, just difficult to find in the sea of facerollers). People would rather unsync content, and watch Netflix during while just spamming 1-2-3.

[DaikiKiyoshi]

Most Coil fights were already nerfed to the ground, and as OP said, queues never pop. It's not relevant to new players in any way, this character haven't stepped foot on Coil and she's not missing anything.

ir·rel·e·vant
əˈreləvənt/
adjective
not connected with or relevant to something.
synonyms: beside the point, immaterial, not pertinent, not germane, off the subject, unconnected, unrelated, peripheral, extraneous, inapposite, inapplicable;


The Binding Coil of Bahamut is anything but irrelevant. It's firmly tied into the entire story of ARR as a whole.

[SenorPatty]

If its giving you trouble in unsynched, even more reason to leave it as is.

Raids like coil are not day-to-day content. The fact that you face difficulties in it while you're capped should actually give you pause to think about what it means if it gets nerfed. Compare this raid to everything that is not a raid in this game and you'll see how there's always a great disparity between how many people do a raid.

Its not just the raid that gets affected when it gets nerfed. People run the harder coils for glam and craft mats to produce the other rare coil glams. I can guarantee you the prices you see now are definitely not the same as before.

Its why I wish people who revisit old raid content stop asking for nerfs because not only most of them are already nerfed to begin with but you can only nerf something so much before its rendered completely obsolete-and by extension-all it provides.

[Vidu]

And why is that exactly...

First off a little layout-suggestion, not meant as an attack but could you stop putting "..." behind every second word? It makes your statements not easier and even almost painful to read (I know I'm guitly of using it a lot myself, but your posts have inspired me to tune it back, even in personal conversations with friends because I just realised how annoying it is to read)

Now, to your point - or to my point, however you'll see it - just because the content is old, doesnt mean it has to become totally meanigless. Coil currently serves two main meanings: Story and challenge. The game grows and more content gets added, but why should we have only one challenging raid in the game? Why should the only challenge be current raid-content? Its like "Oh, we got two new dungeons with this new patch - lets kick the two oldest ones out!"
There is a variety of content the casual player can pick from and it grows with each patch - so why not have the same for people who want to challenge themself by piling up on difficult content too?
Even if the gear is already outdated - except for glamour purpose, ofc! Second Coil gear is amazing! - there is still a relevant reward: The story. I raided back then and I never cared much for the gear - I raided for the story. So there is still a reward in place for beating that content.
You cant really compare Coil to 24man-raids, its different content - 24man raids are faceroll easy (and the devs put drops for current content, aka relic, in there)

It makes me a little angry to always see this attitude of "I want everything in this game but I dont want to put any effort into it!" - seriously, if thats what you want: Go and watch a Lets Play.
Coil fits the skill- and itemlevel it was designed for. It is not assigned to be challenge at level 60. It is not assigned to be facerolled by a bunch of strangers. Its in the DF for convenience - not because its now supposed to be easy enough to be cleared in DF.

Most Coil fights were already nerfed to the ground, and as OP said, queues never pop. It's not relevant to new players in any way, this character haven't stepped foot on Coil and she's not missing anything.

Excatly. Coil has already been damaged enough - why make it even more of faceroll, braindead content?
The fact that its two years olf doesnt mean that there arent people out there who'd like to take on the challenge. Or who would like to take on challenging content besides Alex Savage. Casuals get more content each patch - why shouldnt raiders too? Except for the game to offer more challenging content, the old challenges have to stay in place.

[Silverquick]

Which floor are you talking about? I don't remember any weird phase skip like that in coil.

Well there was this part in the 2nd turn of the Final Coil,
We'd made it through the other insta death mechanics eventually, but then we got to this part with these Orbs that appear, and each one is different... apparently you need to tank two of them which we only had one tank unsynced...

And we'd beat down one, but apparently when it touches the other one some raid wipe mechanic is supposed to go off..

Well it did, but couldn't kill us so we were just stuck...

I tried to use Titan to tank one of them while the actual Tank took the other one...

But one of them got away apparently and jammed up everything... so we were whacking on this other one that was invulnerable and nothing could be killed at that point so we were basically stuck and it won't go any further...

If I could have queued with a full party (aka duty finder) I'm sure we could have handled it, but with only 1 tank 1 healer and 3 DPS we didn't have the numbers to do it even unsynced.

[HyoMinPark]

So in other words..

When it goes off and jams up and makes everything invulnerable because it cant kill me anymore... with a supposed insta death mechanic...

And I'm sitting in the middle of the instance unable to do anything or clear it because its not strong enough to kill me at 60th level unsynced... its like... my fault and stuff...

Gotcha...

I mean, if you really want to get killed in Coil at level 60, provided your HP pool is low enough, you could just stand outside of the neurolink for Teraflare. Tbh, I have no idea what you're actually trying to say here. You were against insta-kill mechanics, but now you're talking about how you can't clear because lack there of? I'm genuinely confused here.

Regardless, older raids/primals and the newer ones still have mechanics that, if you don't follow them, can and will kill you. I do wish they would add more primal fights where if you push the boss too hard, it results in a wipe. I always find it fun when I'm in groups that do that for Ifrit, Levi, or Ramuh. Gives me a good laugh. But this content is supposed to be challenging. Why would you not add mechanics that can result in death if ignored/executed improperly?

I really wish Coil was included in mentor roulette, to be honest. I would find it fun to get thrown into T13 sync'd down to 50 with newbies. Would give me an actual challenge for once...something refreshing, because I tend to just get leveling dungeons in my mentor roulette. :v Only got one Ex primal, and it was Ifrit. That was actually fun though, even though it took nearly the entire time to clear it (there were two new people, I think? Tank and a healer).

Addition: I see your above post. I mean, your group chose to enter with only 5 people. And you chose to enter with only 1 tank. I fail to see how that's the fault of the content itself.

And you could have queued with a full party. It's called "waiting for your PF to fill." Because they do fill, even for Coil.

[Crysten]

What I did not realize... There are so many insta-kill mechanics in the end fights at times that I seriously wonder how people got through this thing with 50th level characters. This thing wipes parties of 60th level unsynced.

But that's kinda useless given that the only thing you'd go there for now is storyline.... but I do see now why I sat in the queue for so long and no one went in. If this is that hard unsynced... why would anyone in their right mind do it at level 50. .

Back at level 50 it was harder. Not just the level difference, but you also had no Echo and they actually nerfed several aspects of all the fights in coil.

Hate to break it to you, but if your FC had trouble with Coil unsynced at 60, you all need to quit sucking.

If I could have queued with a full party (aka duty finder) I'm sure we could have handled it, but with only 1 tank 1 healer and 3 DPS we didn't have the numbers to do it even unsynced.

Then take two tanks or have one of your DPS tank the second mob? Come on.

Asking for nerfs to fights that can already be facerolled by a competent four man party at level 60? Get out.

[Silverquick]

Back at level 50 it was harder. Not just the level difference, but you also had no Echo and they actually nerfed several aspects of all the fights in coil.

Hate to break it to you, but if your FC had trouble with Coil unsynced at 60, you all need to quit sucking.

Asking for nerfs to fights that can already be facerolled by a competent four man party at level 60? Get out.

Really?

Then why exactly did the mechanic jam up and freeze the entire fight so we were stuck there?

[Vidu]

Well there was this part in the 2nd turn of the Final Coil,
We'd made it through the other insta death mechanics eventually, but then we got to this part with these Orbs that appear, and each one is different... apparently you need to tank two of them which we only had one tank unsynced...

You need to tanke the sphere and the cube, yes - egg cant be tanked, but will move around the room. A level 60 mage should be in charge of the cube here, and serve both as a tank and as the person whos damaging it down. Tank the ball - and move both adds so they wont come close to each other or near the egg (that automatically moves).

From your description it sounds as if you were very unsure how mechanics work in the fight and instead expected them to not matter, like every other content in the game where you can just ignore them. Instead of nerfing content by making mechanics meanigless we should really start to ask for relevant mechanics in day-to-day-content so people will stop whining when they actually have to do something.

FYI: Two friends of mine and I three man'ed T12 a year ago - we had so, so much fun with it, figuring out a good composition to handle the content (we might went PLD, DRG, SCH, not sure anymore...) and new ways to deal with mechanics now. It was a challenge and it took us a few tries, but I cant tell you how much we enjoyed it!

If you dont want to challenge yourself: Please, just stay away from content that is meant to be a challenge. Its okay. You dont have to see everything in the game if you dont like certain aspects. But please, please dont ruin it for those people who enjoy to do more than press 3 buttons to get through any content.
My friends and I are actually planning to go back into coil - we got 2 months til Stormblood, nothing to do anymore and are very curious if we can still handle the difficult content this game has to offer!

Really?

Then why exactly did the mechanic jam up and freeze the entire fight so we were stuck there?

What mechanic are you talking about?