Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[Crysten]

To those still fighting the good fight against the tidal wave of dumb in this thread, if you ever find yourselves on Ragnarok, I will give you a hug, cookies and a stiff drink to help wash the pain away.

I've got nothing but admiration for the patience you guys have, seriously!

[bswpayton]

[QUOTE=Vidu;4122791]I feel part of the problem here is that OP seems fairly new /QUOTE]
I see I'm still being discussed again At first I didn't know that nobody qued for it. That's was months ago but now I know people do and it's usync only mostly so if content is only ran usync only ninthy percent of the time then it's become trash content. And should be set up in a way to where people like op shouldn't have to come to the forums and say something about it. It doesn't matter what they do to a level fifty raid now it's old and dated it should be just as face roll as all the other level fifty stuff unsync is

@Istaru

That goes for every role as far as mechanics, but I dont see how anyone can deny that tanks and heals are on par with each other While dps just dish out damage which tanks and healers can do. Tons of content can be done without dps , but the flip side of that is tons cant be done with no tanks or no heals, dps serve their purpose but they arent in lines with importance as tanks or heals.

[Vidu]

I see I'm still being discussed again At first I didn't know that nobody qued for it. That's was months ago but now I know people do and it's usync only mostly so if content is only ran usync only ninthy percent of the time then it's become trash content. And should be set up in a way to where people like op shouldn't have to come to the forums and say something about it. It doesn't matter what they do to a level fifty raid now it's old and dated it should be just as face roll as all the other level fifty stuff unsync is

@Istaru

That goes for every role as far as mechanics, but I dont see how anyone can deny that tanks and heals are on par with each other While dps just dish out damage which tanks and healers can do. Tons of content can be done without dps , but the flip side of that is tons cant be done with no tanks or no heals, dps serve their purpose but they arent in lines with importance as tanks or heals.

I will repeat: Coil unsyched still does not has to be easier than any dungeon unsyched. Dungeon mechanics can wipe you if you ignore them, so can Coil - they're not different from each other. Coils difficulty came from meeting dps-checks (as in: not hitting enrage) while still dealing with more mechanics than the average dungeon-boss has. Now that Coil is and can be done unsyched a good chunck of those mechanics can be ignored, reducing it to about 3 or 4 mechanics in T11 (for example; we went over those a few times already, sadly neither you nor OP actually stated that "Yes, that is to difficult for me to do, it has to be nerfed!" - either ignoring what we told you or knowing deep in your heart that you're wrong about calling those "uber difficult content").

Even though I have mained a tank for the past 4 years and am extremly familiar with playing a healer aswell, I have to burst your little bubble: Tanks and healers are not more important to a run than DPS. Stop telling yourself that to boost your own ego at the cost of false information and downgrading your fellow players who enjoy dps. You're showing a lot more elitst attitude here than any of those toxic veterans who are telling you "If I was able to beat Coil, so are you!" - because your stand is "I picked the most important class so I'm the most important person here! DPS can go home!"
I've run dungeons without a healer or a tank before and I'll take a good DPS over a midcore healer or tank any day. As a paladin I can compensate for the lack of a healer. As scholar I can compensate for the lack of a tank by being the tank myself. As dps I'm skilled enough to tank and keep myself alive. Dont pretend that in a team-"based" game some classes are more equal than others...
I dont want to engage in this discussion with you again - you've said this nonsense before and you still seem to believe that playing tank or healer makes you more important than any dps-class. You are being rude and disrespectful again just to boost your own ego. You've placed yourself on a high horse without any right to do so. Please stop.

[HyoMinPark]

I see I'm still being discussed again At first I didn't know that nobody qued for it. That's was months ago but now I know people do and it's usync only mostly so if content is only ran usync only ninthy percent of the time then it's become trash content.

There's those percentages again. Please provide evidence to back up your percentages if you're going to use them.
And if we want to talk about "trash content," my opinion is that PotD is "trash content" that promotes lazy leveling, and in no way teaches people how to perform any job, be it tank, healer, or DPS. However, that is my opinion, just like you thinking that content done "unsync ninety percent of the time" is trash content. Please stop saying that your opinions are facts. Because they are not.

And should be set up in a way to where people like op shouldn't have to come to the forums and say something about it. It doesn't matter what they do to a level fifty raid now it's old and dated it should be just as face roll as all the other level fifty stuff unsync is

OP failed a mechanic or encountered a technical bug. That is in no way a fault of Coil itself. If it was a failed mechanic, that was the OP's fault. If it was a technical bug, then a bug report needs to be filed so that SE can look into it, and go in and fix the instance if need be. However, since no one has been able to replicate the OP's experience, more than likely it was a result of failing mechanics. It doesn't matter if you do content synced or unsynced; mechanics are still going to be there in some shape or form. Better get used to it. I don't see the devs changing this come Stormblood.

@Istaru

That goes for every role as far as mechanics, but I dont see how anyone can deny that tanks and heals are on par with each other While dps just dish out damage which tanks and healers can do. Tons of content can be done without dps , but the flip side of that is tons cant be done with no tanks or no heals, dps serve their purpose but they arent in lines with importance as tanks or heals.

I mean, I can also tank stuff on my bard. It just hurts a bit more than it would if I was a tank. I can also heal myself on bard: it's called Second Wind, and it's saved me more times than DF healers have. Oh, I also have my own personal esuna in the form of The Warden's Paeon.

Your attitude saying that tanks are healers are more important than DPS makes you sound worse than the elitists that use their (inflated) parser numbers to inflate their own ego.

Who gives your White Mage a 10% magical damage increase when you're DPSing? A Bard.
Who gives your White Mage MP when you're running dry and Shroud of Saints is on cooldown? A Bard.
Who gives your Paladin TP after he's been in battle for a while, and is feeling a little starved? A Bard.
Who gives your Warrior TP after you've spammed Overpower too much? A Bard.
Who augments the magical damage done by your Dark Knight? A Bard.

And that's just using ONE DPS as an example. But, right. DPS aren't that important.

Job build is a fact , dps were not built in a way to sustain themselves. With maybe the exception of summoner, but even still dps are not made in a way to sustain themselves this not ego this is fact. The only reason I mention it is because of a comment that was made to me.

I can heal myself on bard with Second Wind. I can also give myself TP if I need to (Army's Paeon). And I have an esuna (Warden's Paeon). But, yeah, I am unable to sustain myself.

Potd is the easiest content in the game it was made with dps in mind.

Care to show me where the developers said they made PotD with DPS in mind?

Where are the solo Vids of dps kiling any arr primal solo outside of summoner it is impossible to do so. Yes a dps can run a wonderers Palace with no tank sure. Try doing any ex primals with an all dps team sync and see what happens.

Wasn't all DPS, but I have been in Ravana Ex parties with 1 tank and 7 DPS. We didn't need a healer at all. (Poor Ravana. He is but a shell of his former glory.)

I've also done T4 with just WAR/BRD. I've done Garuda Ex with WAR/BRD. But I guess since those are just so faceroll they don't count in your eyes.

You can't solo Lost City of Amdapor regardless of job because you need two people for the first boss. You also cannot solo Titan HM regardless of job because the instance resets if you're gaol'd. But, you know. I guess those don't count since they are all "old" content and "automatic faceroll" according to you.

And yet somehow the DF isn't Tank Tank Tank

I've done over 1 damage on pali drk and warrior.

WHOA. Here, let me get up off of my DPS throne and give it to you, O Mighty One.

The df could be tank tank heal but this is a game for everyone and people like dps I like dps I'm just aware that tanks and heals are more important to the team.

Funny story here: I was actually in an A1S light farm party that somehow ended up 3 healers and 5 tanks. But you wanna know what happened? There wasn't enough DPS to clear it. We actually couldn't down the second Opressor before he Self-Destructed. But, you know. Tanks and healers are more important to the team than the raw power of competent DPS.

You would argue that drk isn't more optimal than pali would u. Would u argue that warrior doesn't do more damage than pali would u.

If you put equally skilled players against one another, then perhaps a PLD couldn't out-DPS a WAR. However, since we're talking about Duty Finder, that is unlikely to happen, and I have seen some WARs in Expert barely pull 500 DPS (in Deliverance), and some PLDs exceed 1,000 DPS. According to my "crystal ball."

My bondmate can tank every duty in his DPS stance only because he has optimized his tanks to the best of his ability. The only time he loses hate is if I just start going ham on a single mob on my BRD, which is my most optimized job. However, he would not come here and say that he is more important--being a tank--compared to one of us "lowly" DPS.

So if it's levels of tanking that one is better than another then why can we not compare the roles as a whole.

Different instances will have different ideal party compositions. Why do you think everyone says that DRK shines in A12S? Magic damage, and DRKs are the king when it comes to handling that. WARs? Not so much? PLDs? Lesser extent.

I've out dps , dps several times on my warrior this isn't uncommon. Dps are good like I said but when it comes to importance they are last in the roles. Not tAking anything away from them but that's just keeping it real.

I've out-DPS'd melee on my BRD. I've also out-DPS'd every role on my AST. But that isn't a reflection on the importance of the role. That's a reflection on the player, and all it says is that they are a poor DPS. Doesn't in any way say "Well, you out-DPS'd that NIN over there on your PLD, therefore you are more important to the party just based on the fact that you are a PLD." I would love to see you meet a DPS check solo in an instance without having a single DPS to help you.

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT

You've done more than 1 damage as a tank?! HOLY SHIT

LOL I LOVE YOU.

[AiharaMizuki]

I've done over 1 damage on pali drk and warrior

Wow. Just wow.

[bswpayton]

I will repeat: Coil unsyched still does.

Job build is a fact , dps were not built in a way to sustain themselves. With maybe the exception of summoner, but even still dps are not made in a way to sustain themselves this not ego this is fact. The only reason I mention it is because of a comment that was made to me.

[Dualgunner]

Job build is a fact , dps were not built in a way to sustain themselves. With maybe the exception of summoner, but even still dps are not made in a way to sustain themselves this not ego this is fact. The only reason I mention it is because of a comment that was made to me.

Fists of Earth, Keen Flurry, Second Wind, Bloodbath, Foresight are all abilities DPS can have that help greatly in sustaining themselves in the unfortunate event they need to OT/subtank because the tank died. I've personally (yes an anecdote) saved more than a few runs with Bloodbath + Doomspike spam as dragoon.

[Vidu]

Job build is a fact , dps were not built in a way to sustain themselves. With maybe the exception of summoner, but even still dps are not made in a way to sustain themselves this not ego this is fact. The only reason I mention it is because of a comment that was made to me.

Yeah, thats totally why we're having skills like blood bath (can be used by dragoon) and second wind. Thats totally why dps-classes are able to solo potd aswell. But all of that requires skill, ofc.

Healers and especially tanks are only artifically important - for most content in this game we could simply replace tanks with dps and it would matter pretty little. About 50% of Dun Scaith runs I did a dps ends up tanking at least the first boss because the tanks are just useless and I can heal them with ease. As bard I used to pick up adds quite frequently because tanks wouldnt do so, using my selfhealing skills to survive. I could go on but I wont, because I actually need some sleep and I'm afraid it wouldnt get through to you anyways.
Your so called "main-class" paladin isnt half as important as you seem to believe.

Quick Edit: Let me tell you who is most important: The person - no matter the job they're on - who is competent enough to deal with mechanics. Ironic, isnt it? When it comes to mechanics everyone is euqally challenged and no matter the job, the person who fails to handle them has a good chance to wipe the entire group. In the light of this entire thread quite ironic, isnt it?

[bswpayton]

Fists of Earth, Keen Flurry, Second Wind, Bloodbath, Foresight ar.

Potd is the easiest content in the game it was made with dps in mind. Where are the solo Vids of dps kiling any arr primal solo outside of summoner it is impossible to do so. Yes a dps can run a wonderers Palace with no tank sure. Try doing any ex primals with an all dps team sync and see what happens. Trying even doing even a one savage no heals no take its not possible. There's tons and tons of documented footage of tank solo heal solo it's even vids of tank only parties doing A savage thanks to xenos. You will be hard pressed to find the same on dps they are great but lack sustainability

[Dualgunner]

-snip-

And yet somehow the DF isn't Tank Tank Tank Healer :P Something wrong Payton? Can't do 2600 dps with your Pally sword? Can hardly score 1000? Come here and gimme a hug.

Also yes I'm taking the shit out of you for replying to Vidu but quoting me X3