Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[Settiesama]

Dissection incoming

[HyoMinPark]

Many people are sayin that people don't want challenge that people don't want to learn but this is a huge generalization. Like I said I didn't have to go back and do the Arr primals sync I didn't have to go into failed df over and over again but I did because it was important to me to do these fights and clear and try to get an understanding of them sync.

You're generalizing by saying that everyone considers unsynced to be "easy mode." You're generalizing by saying that new people like running content unsynced because they want easy clears for old content. You're even generalizing when you say "no one runs Coil anymore" and "that content is dead." So, it's okay for you to generalize, but when others pop up, clearly going against your ridiculous generalizations, we're the ones generalizing. Right. Makes total sense.

But these fights also can be done sync whether its doing mentor roulette are tryin the duty finder and waiting for an hour or so. I want to learn and the op also stated they wanted to do even coil sync.

And then, a few posts later, he said that Coil should just be nerfed to the ground because the developers won't tweak it to satisfy LEVEL 60 SKILL. What OP ultimately wanted was for the developers to waste time and resources revamping content that doesn't need to be revamped (because his group couldn't clear T11 UNSYNCED), and then got mad when people said "that will never happen." So the OP demanded Coil be nerfed so hard that the first Guildhest is harder than it.

But heres the difference in opinion if the community as a whole only gives one option of doing the content which for coil is gona be unsync then its pointless to learn it. For what, if I cant do it sync if I cant get any form or the real challenge in anyway possible then I don't want to learn it I want to faceroll it. Im not gona learn things for a false sense of a fight, and with unsync being the only option it makes the content irrelevant.

....I can't even with this. I'm just going to be blunt here: if you aren't willing to learn under any circumstances--synced or unsynced--then you don't deserve to be a Mentor or call yourself one. Because if you refuse to learn content--content that can be done at level 50 or level 60, because some cannot be done the same way unsynced as they can synced, and visa versa--then how are you expecting yourself to teach it? I just can't with this.

And please don't come with the make a party finder cause nobody is doing coil sync and we all know this.

Wow. So that's why there's not all these parties in PF running Coil for Wonderous Tails. Or that's why I saw that T9 SYNCED PARTY a couple weeks ago. Yep. People definitely don't do Coil anymore. Obviously.

You just don't want people bringing up Party Finder because you know that, in the end, they're right about it being a valid option.

We just have different views on a feature, like I said I want to personally challenge myself, yea its some mechanics I find annoying and that aggravate me but Im not gona ask for a nerf on it.

*Then proceeds to defend the OP asking for Coil nerfs*

I hope the game continues to get more challenging and that I can take part in meeting those challenges. But again with challenges you have the whole zurvan thing and people get vile and I believe the devs know this so I don't know how they will balance that because you make things to hard it just will start creating wedges more and more between players.

Sorry, but with your current attitude, I don't really think you'll get far. Since you refuse to learn mechanics just because you're running an instance unsynced. I'm surprised that doesn't trickle into synced content as well. Might as well learn them, honey, because even if there does come a time where people can solo T13 in less than 3 minutes in their ilvl 999,999,999 gear on their level 1,000 gladiator, those Earthshakers probably aren't going to go anywhere anytime soon.

Mechanics are constantly recycled and reused in new content. So you might as well learn them now, because, at some point, you're going to have to anyways. So suck it up, buttercup.

But we are talkin about a feature here if my only option to do something is unsync and in my experience unsync equals clear, Ive never done something unsync and didn't finish it. That's my interpretation of the feature just like everyone has their own

And herein lies the ultimate hamartia to your argument: your "interpretations" of things, or your "experiences" of things do not make them facts.

I don't know what the op is referring to wanting nerfed because I refuse to do a raid if the only option I have to do it is a fake sense of challenge. If you only gona give me a half assed way to do the content then naturally I will or many other people will only want to half ass it.

Then why are you still here talking about how everything unsynced should be so easy my cat could do it? You make absolutely no sense, and your sense of reasoning is extremely convoluted. "I refuse to half-ass content. But if I'm running it unsynced, I refuse to learn and acknowledge mechanics, even if they can still one-shot my Level 60/ilvl 270 Dark Knight."

Just...what?!

And again, you don't only have Duty Finder to do content synced. You have Party Finder for that, and most people, even if they did redo Coil and made it the Level 70 raid for Stormblood instead of Omega are going to use the Party Finder anyways, not Duty Finder.

Alright, I'll sit here and wait for the inevitable rebuttal of "don't bring up the Party Finder thing with me" again...

I don't really understand why this is hard to understand unsync creates and promotes laziness I for one wish the feature wasn't even in the game but we all know what would happen if it wasn't these other forms of content would never get touched. When you enter into an instance unsync you are saying essentially im to lazy to do this otherwise and Il admit to that Im not gona wait in duty finder and wait on arr primals to finish getting horses.

"My interpretation of unsynced is faceroll easy. If I'm going to do content unsynced, I expect to not have to put forth any effort in learning mechanics to do so."
"Unsynced just promotes laziness among players; it shouldn't be in this game at all."

Contradictions.

Im entering the unsync with the idea that I can be lazy and put in hardly any effort in this instance because it was made for my convenience to do so. That's what unsync is a quick fix basically like getting a test in school and the teacher giving you the answers you just gota put them on your test.

Please see above paraphrasing from your previous posts in this thread.

So if I see threads like Ive been seeing from some people who want nerfs to content I know that nobody is runin sync with them or that I know would be hard to get a party for sync then I agree with them.

"I, for one, hate the unsync feature and wish that it wasn't even in this game. I never ask for nerfs."

Please stop contradicting yourself.

Everything else under the veil of unsync is easy so why make something harder than the other instances you can run unsync. So that's the jist of the difference I want to beat and learn content just as much as the next person but that's sync content only if Im doing unsync something I am deciding to go into easy mood and do whatever it is im doing at the least amount of effort possible.

Please stop contradicting yourself. Please stop with your hypocrisy. It just invalidates any "arguments" that you come up with. So stop now. Your "thoughts" and your "interpretations" are not cold, hard facts. Please learn and accept that now. Your opinions are just that: opinions. They are neither right nor wrong. They provide no factual basis for your arguments.

That's the difference in views but I don't really see how anyone can argue that unsync feature doesnt equals easy because it does no matter how you spin it. Whether you chose to believe it or not its always the recommended option for doing something old, because everyone knows its a breeze. I personal highly doubt id have the trouble that op is mentioning with this content but I feel for his plight because if he cant get it sync then he should have it easy just like everything else that goes unsync is easy there should be no one shot mechanics that are to difficult when going into the realm of uysnc it should be an automatic clear.

My god. AGAIN. Your "views" are not facts. Your opinions are not facts. Please point to me where in this game it explicitly says that unsynced is the only option for old or dated content. Please tell me where that is said anywhere in this game or on this forum, aside from your own opinionated posts.

Unsynced should be an automatic clear? So, I should just queue into the instance, and once the barrier drops, the boss randomly explodes and "DUTY COMPLETE" flashes across the screen? Yeah, no. If you want to beat on a striking dummy, there are plenty scattered around Eorzea, and probably at your FC house, if it has one.

Otherwise if people that couldn't clear the content any other way for whatever reason and if they still cant unsync then what good is unsync then?

Is that why yesterday I rolled Chimera in my trial roulette and there were 2 NEW PEOPLE IN THE DUTY? I mean, that is "old" content for an "old" relic that nobody does anymore. Is that why the day before I rolled Ultros & Typhon? Or last week when I got both Gilgamesh battles? Oh, all of them had new player bonuses, by the way. But those are all "old" trials for an "old" sidequest storyline that nobody does anymore.

Please see Istaru's post about how he/she uses unsynced as a way to teach people. And I highly doubt her teaching consists of "Okay, guys. This is an unsynced clear, so all you have to do is just auto-attack the boss, stand in all of those AOE circles, oh, and you can go touch the wall if you like. It only hurts a little bit."

Please see all the other valid reasons people use the unsynced option.

Every feature in this game serves a purpose and unsync purpose if it doesn't allow everyone to clear something then its really no purpose to the feature at all. Because we already have access , to content so its not for that, so if it isn't for clearing stuff then what, the option to just underside parties? They could of also just given us this option as well and left it at that , but they didn't they allowed us to be over geared have all of our moves, and put echo in.

You can clear all content unsynced. And if you can't, then how can you expect to clear it synced? If a person cannot clear something unsynced (note that this DOES NOT MEAN that they can just ignore mechanics and bang their hands against the keyboard), then they really need to take Yoshi-P's advice and git gud.

I, personally, use unsynced for farming Coil items, such as the aetherstones, gear for glamour, crafting mats, and orchestrion rolls. I also used it to get my Ramuh pony, because I explicitly remember doing that one at 60 due to my abysmal rolls on the whistles back when I did it synced down; I also used it for Ifrit and Titan because my rolls are garbage, and unsynced was faster and more convenient at the time. I use the unsynced feature to enter with 1 or 2 other people and see how far we can get with just us in the duty. Sometimes I enter something solo so I can just get in and get out if I'm doing books for the old relic (although sometimes I just queue in through Duty Finder if I need some extra poetics), or just so I can take time to appreciate the scenery of the dungeon. Some dungeons have amazing aesthetics that get ignored because people just want to get in and get out in 15 minutes or less.

I do not, however, use unsynced as a way to "instantly clear" something without having to follow mechanics. If I ignore the Landslides in Titan Ex, I'm still going to get punched off. Even when I'm Level 999,999,999.

I found this little post blurb about the unsynced feature. It's obviously just someone's personal opinion on how to use the feature, but still. It at least gives a reason as to why the feature is there, and a reason to use it. Oh, also note what they say in the last little bit of that post about how unsynced doesn't mean you can ignore mechanics.

The Unsynced feature has tons of different uses. It's primary use and implementation, however, was not to allow people to just faceroll content.

With regards to Echo, Alexander Creator Savage now has Echo, and you can't run it unsynced. Echo is in no way correlated to unsynced. It's just another nerf.

So if it doesn't already and I believe it does it should me automatic clear I cant say this enough otherwise its existence is meaningless we can fail in sync content unsync should be a straight shoot.

Again, your opinions =/= facts.

You can wipe in unsynced groups, too.

So I guess I need to clarify do I want everything given to me certainly not , do I want everything casual in the game nope I sure don't. I will work for sync content I will spend hours on sync content , I will read watch take notes , etc learn sync content. If Im doing something usync or anyone else for that matter for the feature to have any worth then yes give me everything as quick as possible because that's the agreement of what usync is "quick clear get gear".

Opinions are not facts. And there's nothing under the Undersized Party feature that says "quick clear get gear" or "you can basically just ignore everything; don't worry about that wall that will instantly kill you if you touch it regardless of your HP pool, or that AOE that's going to inflict a 30-second paralysis debuff on you interrupting every other attack; you'll be fine. "

All jokes aside tho if people aren't getting clears are having trouble with doing things usync then we may really need to evaluate the point of the feature again then.

If people aren't clearing content unsynced and overgeared, then they should re-evaluate themselves by gitting gud and still following applicable mechanics.

(I also see people or refrencing my other thread that I made on unsync and rewards, I stand by but the difference is that's my personal preference. I will not take a reward from anything I haven't cleared sync period. But after that thread I realized everyone isn't going to be like me and everyone may want things just because they can have it.

Oh, like you want the ability to faceroll all content when it's unsynced?

It's also your "personal preference" to want to be able to faceroll everything unsynced. Sorry. That doesn't give any factual basis for your arguments.

Glad you realized we aren't all like you, though.

[Dualgunner]

-EPIC RANT RESPONSE-

Dude...I love you.

[Annoynymoose]

WHAT EVERYONE HAVE BEEN SAYING THROUGHOUT THE 28 PAGES OF THIS THREAD.

How do you even have the patience for this person without getting any imaginary aneurism is beyond me.

[Bloody]

How do you even have the patience for this person without getting any imaginary aneurism is beyond me.

It's all about not taking it serious. You read what was written, logically dissect it, eat some popcorn, try not to laugh too loudly, and then provide a clear and well structured (if somewhat witty) rebuttal. That's why I provided a 2 minute school session.

[bswpayton]

You're generalizing by saying that everyone considers unsynced to be "easy mode." You're generalizing by saying that new people like running content :

Like I said its a good thing that the story is separated from alex savage than alex normal , that way this same problem will not continue that people seem to be having with binding coil. Just judging from the post here there seems to be a problem that people or having and Im just always on the side of the little guy when it comes to this game. And in my experience since I dont and wont to do coil (despite wanting to see the story and gettin the song anwers ),everything unsync is face roll and sense I will not be doing any alex unsync as well then the trend will continue for me personally.

I just hope that if the problem persist through hw that the devs will hear those who are new or that stayed out of the way so that people wouldnt get on their case for not being good enough at the time content was current, that content will be made in a way unsync so that they can to get whatever fulfillment they get out of doing said content. Im not hearing from any one that isnt sayin that they arent a good player and that they are skilled at the game some people just arent and sometimes certain things in game can give them a problem so who am I to tell them that even in unsync you still shouldn't be able to clear the content. Im not gona do that, but everyone is entitled to their opinion and their reaction to certain things. You will never and I repeat hear me calling for a nerf to sync or current content, I am pretty good at acceptance even if for some reason I cant get past a hurdle Id rather accept that I cant do it than ask for a nerf on that content.

But if someone waits or is late and their only method to do something is to run it unsync then they should have the right wit that feature to be able to get past any hurdle in the game, because once something goes usync at that point it no longer matters anymore and people have moved on to something new and up to date. As far as mentor goes I dont even do mentor roulette , but Im the type of person that if I did I wouldnt abandon a duty or anything like that and as it stands its not to much content I havent cleared that would be in the mentor roulette if I did do it outside of (titan which not even gona get on that instance). So I will have no issue with teaching any content as a side note, I just simply am of two minds you work when it counts and unsync just simply doesnt count in my book its a trash feature but its a means to an end and has its purpose. But if the feature isnt leading to automatic clears for everyone then it has a very limited purpose , and should be reevaluated , like I said if people wont to fail they can do something sync , unsync should be automatic clear regardless of skil level to give everyone their chance of clearing content that no longer has any value

[Settiesama]

Like I said its a good thing that the story is separated from alex savage than alex normal , that way this same problem will not continue that people seem to be having with binding coil. Just judging from the post here there seems to be a problem that people or having and Im just always on the side of the Lazy people when it comes to this game. And in my experience since I dont and wont to do coil (despite wanting to see the story and gettin the song anwers ),everything unsync is face roll and sense I will not be doing any alex unsync as well then the trend will continue for me personally.

Fixed for ya, and weren't you just complaining that Coils should be a face roll Unsynced, now saying it is a faceroll? Hmm.. I think you should just lay down and rest now.

But if someone waits or is late and their only method to do something is to run it unsync then they should have the right wit that feature to be able to get past any hurdle in the game, because once something goes usync at that point it no longer matters anymore and people have moved on to something new and up to date.

And just like OP, you have ignored every bloody reply to you.

unsync

Because I never get old of this one, and you clearly missed the point.

unsync should be automatic clear regardless of skil level to give everyone their chance of clearing content that no longer has any value

So there is no value at all in glamour, story, music sheets? Helping new players through the content without waiting for a party to fill? Teaching them mechanics that WILL help them out in later content at a much easier pace for them? Letting them experience the fight at a much easier pace if they can't handle the stress of it being a full on challenge? Yeah, actually you're right, no value at all here, should just make it so Coils is a movie.

Edit: You also continue to say that you speak for a good margin of the populace... But where exactly is any support to that claim? You appear to be a one person army fighting for your own dream world in this one.

[bswpayton]

Fixed for ya, and weren't you just complaining that Coils should be a face roll Unsynced, now saying it is a faceroll? Hmm.. I think you should just lay down and rest now.

I haven't done coil Im pretty sure its face roll , I mention I wont do it because the majority of players wouldnt touch coil sync with a ten foot pole sync. And Ive stated several times in this thread that Im not takin rewards from content I never cleared sync because imo I dont deserve those rewards if the only way I cleared the content was unsync only.

And yea they put maybe the first three legs of coil in wt , but that doesnt change the fact that the majority of people will just get one or two people go in unsync and get in and get out just like they do with the arr primals. I dont waste my time with wt not about that rng life , but no Im not defending lazy people this is not the only post regarding to some players having issues with coil. There have been others and sense everything else unsync is faceroll then I see no reason to not make coil the same sense it is old and nobody is runnin it anyway so it shouldnt matter to anyone. And some of the things people have said makes sense ,but alot of it not so much Id be right there arguing with others about nerfing current content that people still play and do.

I was the first post on the nerf potd boss to disagree, I dont put myself in a box , I dont support watering down the game when its content that people actually do on a regular basis sync content. But coil is not its something that very few people that play the game do and when they do it , its unsync so in the unsync format I dont see what the big deal about it being super easy is , everything else unsync is super easy so coil unsync shouldnt have anyone coming to the forums complaining about having issues because unsync content should be very easy (because after all its unsync).

@Vidu

I would tell that person and that if all they care about is story only then they dont have to have a time farm on when they are gettin to where they want to go. They dont have to be caught up with everyone else because once the story ends then the way they play they have nothing left to do anyway. And the thing about what your sayin regarding coils is Im very aware they would have to change it the thing is that whos running it sync very few people so in this case it wouldnt actually matter.

With raids once the new raids come out they die harder than primals, simply probably because raids cant be done in the same amount of time. Raids may take weeks or even months to clear where as a primal may take far less time if you do it repeatably so raids die faster. So once they go to the grave yard then it doesnt matter what they do to the content cause whos setting up statics to do binding coil, whos gona be settin up statics to do alex savage when omega comes out nobody. P

eople will do the primals sync but thats still rare , but they are much more easy to do in a few sessions as opposed to a raid. With the number being so low already of people who even raid anyway then I see no reason that once the tier has pasted that it becomes easy enough for those all players to do them or new players. You guys would have it that even after nobody is dong the raid nobody cares nobody wants to even touch it , its outdated new stuff is here that even still then you want to make clearing them exclusive. Like the stranglehold people want on content is just crazy to me , who cares about a raid once a new one is here so who cares if they nerf it in a way that anybody can clear them?

[Vidu]

like I said if people wont to fail they can do something sync , unsync should be automatic clear regardless of skil level to give everyone their chance of clearing content that no longer has any value

Heres the thing: if you're doing content unsyched or syched affects only you, not the content - the content is the same both times. You cant remove mechanics from the "unsyched-version", but keep them synched because the "unyched-version" does not exists. Same content. If you remove mechanics they're gone. For everyone. If you nerf the content, its also nerfed and has changed for the person who wants a challenge, because its the same duty, the same content. Thats why I cant possibly agree with you because you show again and again that you lack an understanding about the things you're talking about.

To keep the challenge sychend, the content has to stay tha way it is now (or be restored to old versions... a girl can dream, right?). If unsyched should supposed to be faceroll, 100% kill, boss drops dead at the start of the duty, it would require the dev-team to programm a second duty. That is excatly what has happend with Alexander - Storymode version for everyone, challenge for raiders. But even the storymode easy version still has mechanics. So, should those be removed for people who just want to watch a movie see the story aswell?
Just an hour ago I was reading this thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tting-annoying.) in which someone complains that they're having to do duties at all because they just want to progress through the story and dont have time for a 20 minuten dungeon. Whats your answer to them? Shall we remove all dungeons from the game because someone cant bring themself to do them?
My answer is: No, we should not. Its part of this games "gameplay" and concept that dungeons are a part of it - and if someone, for whatever reason, cant or dont want to that, they should really be looking for a different game.

You are also again being very patronising and arguing for a group fo people no one should argue for: Those who are to lazy, to but the slightest amount of effort into anything. If you want auto-clears: Go and buy one or look for someone who carries you.
You are not aware what you're asking for - and you're not arguing for the sake of yourself but for people you assume exists. People who you describe as so lazy or stupid that they cant handle mechanics at all - which raises the question: How did a person who cant handle mechanics at all even reach Coil?

I haven't done coil Im pretty sure its face roll ,

Thank you for confirming that you dont even know what you're talking about. You're basically saying here "Please remove mechanics that I havent seen, so I dont even know if they're difficult or not".
Can we all agree on ignoring this person now since they cant possibly evaluate wether or not content that they've never done needs adjustments?

I assure you: T11 does not need it, just because mechanics cant be ignored - you mention the PotD-discussion. Mechanics on Edda cant be ignored either, but they're easy enough to handle (turn away for the eye, dont stand in AoEs). I'll do you the courtesy to list relevant T11-mechanics when this content is done synched or unsyched - and you think long and hard about wether or not thats to much to ask, okay?

T11

- Barofield: Dont stand directly under Kalia. You can see the white field on the ground. All you have to do is not stand in it. Thats okay, right?
- Tankswitch/debuff: synched you need to provoke here, but unsyched it doesnt matter - just tank here. Like, stand still and tank here. Okay?
- Seeds of sea/land: Synched you need to stack and spread for those - unsyched it doesnt matter, just heal through the damage. You can cast a medica II or so, right?
- Add-phase. Okay, bit tricky! Move along the room while tanking two adds (one add can now be tanked by any class) and make sure they dont come to close to each other. Am I asking to much of you already?
- Add-phase: Stand close to the add you wish to attack because you wont deal damage otherwise. You can do that, can you?
- Add-phase: If you get the lightning debuff, move out of the group or everyone close to you will get paralysis. You know where you need to do that too? Ozma in Mhach. There its bleed, but basically: if you get targeted with that: move out of the group. You can pay a little attention to that, yes?
- Theters: Just have blue stand toegther and green stand together. No need to dodge Kalias AoEs when doing this unsyched, so just agree on having blue marks on one side and green ones on the other side and stand there, til the colours change (and you might have to move to the other side) or Kalia drops dead because you're just burning her at this point.

[Istaru]

But if the feature isnt leading to automatic clears for everyone then it has a very limited purpose , and should be reevaluated , like I said if people wont to fail they can do something sync , unsync should be automatic clear regardless of skil level to give everyone their chance of clearing content that no longer has any value

My head hurts...

It would be awesome if you could just like stop. Please?

It is called "Undersized Party". That is the intent to that mode.

I'm going to repeat myself, please say it with me, "Undersized Party".

Ok, good? Sigh

It's intent was to allow smaller groups to attemp to clear older content for people who missed it.

It is not "Game made EZ". It is also not "Faceroll to Victory".

You also stated "has no value". If it has no value whatsoever, why is anyone doing it? The answer is simple, it does have value. It may not have the value it once did, but it still has value nonetheless. Those are things such as a title, a minion, Wondrous Tails, glamour, crafting items, orchestrion scrolls, gear for level 50 jobs. There are many things to value. Just because they aren't level 60 endgame things does not mean they are without value.

Since you followed my premise, I'll follow yours.

Oh, you didn't? Not shocked, but I will work with what you stated anyway.

At the release of 5.0, all 4.x content becomes face roll easy from that mode since mechanics and effort are hard. Basically all the content becomes a piñata, you smack it around a little bit with your "gimme loot" button and loot comes flying out of it all of the place. So much loot you are still picking it up a week later.

If that is the intent, why bother to play 4.0 at all? Seriously. If I can complete everything from 4.0 in an hour and get all the rewards in a day or two, why spend 2 years doing the same thing??? The answer is that beyond friends and a desire for what would now become artificially challenging content, there isn't one.

To go a step further, what if everyone or most people came to this same conclusion and cancelled their subscription for an entire expansion as there was no longer any reason to learn anything while it was relevant? I'm fairly certain the answer would be, death of the game as we know it. The loss of revenue would cause them to drop the funding of the game due to lack of revenue generated.

That is at least partly why it is not gimme loot mode. I agree that old content should get easier over time. I disagree that it should go from a challenge to "rolling for loot while watching Netflix" just because an expansion happened.