Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[Kuroneko_Jutah]

I'm gonna be one of those jerks that says "unsynced shouldn't be faceroll content" because I'm tired of lazy people getting things by whining loudly about it long enough. Whether or not the content is "old" "dead" or "irrelevant" is, in fact, irrelevant. If you're not willing to put in even the minimal effort required to clear something unsynced, you shouldn't get the clear. As others have pointed out, it is really not that hard unsynced at ilvl270 even with an undersize party.

While we're at it why don't we erect walls around The Navel so landslides don't knock us off the platforms in Titan EX anymore. /s

[bswpayton]

I'm gonna be one of those jerks that says "unsynced

Are just keep the challenge in you know that feature called level sync and see how many people are doing that. OP and I said they would do coil sync, but if I have to do it unsync then it should be faceroll because thats what you do with unsync content

@ Vidu
I dont get where people are seeing this lookin for a hand out thing I along with the op both tried to que up for coil in duty finder. You know what this meant is we very much new that their was a challenge their and that we wanted to face that challenge. What happened next its a grave yard you guys have stated nobody ques for it , ok so lets ask some friends. Oh you wana do coil lets do it unsync and speed run it I did 1 to 5 unsync in less than an hour pretty easy and I was level 50 at the time if I recall. I tried to go back and reque weekend after weekend i maybe got into 1 and 2 you know those connected to wt, cleared them sync.

This is my personal reason but I will not take a reward from something I ever cleared unsync only, because to me I didnt deserve that reward so therefore it was no point in me doing coils because I knew nobody would ever do this content with me sync. Hell people wont even do below alex 9s right now , only two ive gotten was 1 and 4 but the point is nobody was sayin that we wanted it easy. What we are sayin is that if we have to unsync the content then we want it to be easy, no chance of failure get it out the way done finish whats next. Put me in anything sync I will do my best, if its unsync I cant be bothered Im to strong and shouldnt have to worry about mechanics are at the very least barely worry about them. The dungoen you mention is an up to level dungeon that syncs your i lvl, that same dungeon in stormblood you may not even see that phase ifyou did you do one autoattack and its destoryed this is what unsync is. Unsync gives us the option to put the least amount of effort in as possible if thats the route im going thats how I wont it ez pz. But if im doing something of level even the level 15 dungeon you follow mechanics unsync is a diff story.

[Kuroneko_Jutah]

Are just keep the challenge in you know that feature called level sync and see how many people are doing that. OP and I said they would do coil sync, but if I have to do it unsync then it should be faceroll because thats what you do with unsync content

That is your opinion of what unsynced content should be, not a fact. Running content unsynced allows you access to level 60 skills and rotations and your full item level in a lower level duty. Anything more would require changing how a duty fundamentally works when you queue Unsynced, which necessitates dev time and resources.

And I'm not sorry for this opinion, but I don't want the devs to spend time and resources tweaking older content to satisfy your need to be lazy in a video game.

[Vaer]

Are just keep the challenge in you know that feature called level sync and see how many people are doing that. OP and I said they would do coil sync, but if I have to do it unsync then it should be faceroll because thats what you do with unsync content

It pretty much is faceroll. There are like a small amount of mechanics that still kill you, a large amount of them don't do anything anymore. The dps checks, heal checks and most of the tank checks are gone. I mean should they make you fly in Titan EX and Leviathan EX if you get knocked off?

People that did these within the first month or two of them being released would probably laugh in your face if you told them unsync is challenging.

[Maero]

No content after coil has come close to it, difficulty and story as well. That is why it was great

[HyoMinPark]

@bswpayton: I am currently away from my computer, but expect a through reply to your post to appear here as soon as I get home.

For now, I will say this: if you had read any of my other posts in this thread, you would recall that I mentioned how sad it was that Ravana Ex is now just a shell of what it used to be, and this is just overgeared-60. Probably when everyone is doing it unsynced at 70, they can just auto-attack and still clear. And that is incredibly sad.

With regards to Soar--people demand that it be skipped (see: Skip Soar or disband), or else the party is a no-go. They don't even want to bother learning the mechanic, which is not hard to learn or comprehend. Not much different than asking for a nerf, in my opinion because they both achieve the same thing: not having to actually put effort towards learning and properly executing mechanics.

My "faith" in this playerbase is basically non-existent because people don't care and just want to watch Netflix while doing any duty, or demand nerfs or skips so that they don't have to learn basic mechanics or worry about doing them. Why should I have faith in a player base that just want rewards handed to them?

People in this thread are discussing Coil because the thread is about Coil. Not Alexander. Not Heavensward primals, not dungeons or anything else. Coil. I personally find it ridiculous and a little sad how much people would rather Zerg content than actually try. I enjoy doing things synced because it's a refreshing change from just skipping everything.

ADDITION: When I run a piece of content for the first time, I hate it when my friends take me in unsynced because I don't feel like I learned anything. For example, I decided to work on the old Bard relic just to have something to do after I got all the birds. My friend took me through Hydra and Chimera unsynced and I still feel like I don't know anything about either. And, as fate would have it, I've been getting them frequently in my Trial and Mentor roulettes.

If anything else, I dislike not knowing how to do things because I feel like it reflects poorly on me--especially when I'm running Mentor roulette and I get new people. I'm supposed to know this content enough to teach it, but I'm always hesitant to queue because what if I roll something that I have only done unsynced? Or roll something that I only ran once (Gordias Normal...I remember nothing about A3 and A4). So it bothers me probably more than most when people just insist on skipping or unsyncing everything. Especially when they are Mentors. How can you teach mechanics if you refuse to learn them?

[Istaru]

@bswpayton: I am currently away from my computer, but expect a through reply to your post to appear here as soon as I get home.

HyoMinPark, save yourself the trouble. That person is always right and will not stop repeating themselves until you suffer an aneurism and die.

I agree with what your saying and I feel the same way.

[HyoMinPark]

HyoMinPark, save yourself the trouble. That person is always right and will not stop repeating themselves until you suffer an aneurism and die.

You do have a point. This isn't the first time I've been in a debate with them either. Just sometimes I can't help myself when I read something just so ridiculous and full of contradictions and hypocrisy. That stuff just bothers me lol. My friends say that, since I like to argue so much and debate with people, that I should just be a lawyer.

I agree with what your saying and I feel the same way.

Oh, I know that you do. And Vidu, and Lace. I'm glad that there are those that feel the same amid the sea of "casual" players here.

By the way, what you said about using unsynced as teaching, and then the different sort of "levels" you take people into content, I like that. I think that, even if it would be kind of overkill and maybe even unnecessary, going into something with just the minimum amount of gear synced down would be a nice way to break the monotony of the endgame grind of tomestones and gear tokens. That sort of (crazy) stuff is the kind of stuff I want to do in my downtime, or when I'm bored. It's basically why I actually started doing my Mentor Roulette. I've been a mentor almost as long as it's been a thing, but just last week started doing the roulette for it.

It was kind of exciting getting thrown into Ifrit Ex with two new people and taking all but 15 minutes of the timer to clear. It was a nice personal challenge because I'm so used to running it unsynced at 60 for WT, so I had to remind myself of how to do the content synced. I enjoyed it, and wasn't even mad about us wiping as much as we did. I kind of wish the Coils were included in Mentor Roulette. Would encourage others to actually learn them properly in order to teach them properly. But since they're more on tier with Savage, it makes sense why they aren't included. Still bummed about it though.

As annoying as I found them before, we need the gates back. We NEED those hard challenges that bring people to a full stop as far as progression and gearing goes. As it stands right now, higher and higher gear - sub-raid level gear - is simply becoming grind tokens that require no real skill to get, just put in 20-30 minutes a day and you'll have an upgrade, guaranteed. No real effort necessary. It's old news now, but when I got my first Darklight piece, I felt like a champ. Why? Cause I beat the Demon Wall. The ORIGINAL Demon Wall. It was tough, but I did it. And I learned a lot in doing it. Yeah, there were wipes, there were bad runs, but when I was able to pull it off consistently, and I got myself a Darklight Corset of Aiming, I was the champ, man.

We NEED that back. Gear currently has no value, because there's no value in the efforts made to get it. Primals have been on a down slope since Thordan, Alexander's (normal) loot system is more of a chore than actual incentive, and as soon as the 24 man raid offers better, it gets left in the dust. No one's going to run anything below A9 multiple times just to get a gear piece, even for glamour. 24 man content becomes avoided because people go expecting others to know how to do everything and do it for them, then wonder why no one's doing anything. We NEED the midcore, and it NEEDS to be a challenge.

This isn't me saying "Make EVERYTHING Coil levels of difficulty since it's an old raid!" This IS me saying we need those challenges that drive people to make LEARNING PARTIES again. Not clear parties, not carries, not "Skip this or life as we know it ends", legit learning parties. We need content that will push people to try and try and try, and look up guides, grab friends who know it or are also trying to learn it; hell MAKE friends who want to clear it just as bad as you do. We need a reason to WANT to progress, and not just do it for the sake of doing it; something to learn to conquer so that we can see what lies beyond it. Cause right now, we don't have that. We have "Skip Soar or disband [because you should be geared enough with all the handouts and know your job well enough by now to push the fight, and because I don't want to have to learn this mechanic]."

^^^^^^^^^
Basically all of this.
Please give me something to make me stop in my tracks, and actually have to reconsider how to approach the content. Please challenge me.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

The reason Coil is easy for me is because I put the time and effort in to learn it when it was new. Now that it's old, I can go in synced or unsynced and still follow the mechanics, thus the 2 biggest hurdles are already lept: what to do, and how to do it. And where they aren't skipped due to high DPS, I STILL follow them. I still stop moving for Blighted Bouquet in T6, I still fall back to avoid damage in T8 if I have Allagan field - THAT is why I can clear it with a 3 man group.

I said it before, and I'll say it again: unsyncing doesn’t excuse anyone from learning the mechanics. Not when you've already been dealing with lesser versions of them, or the same with a different coat of paint, and all through Heavensward. If you think old content should be a faceroll simply because it's old and learning what to do and how to do it shouldn't matter, your mindset and approach to the content is wrong.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

As annoying as I found them before, we need the gates back. We NEED those hard challenges that bring people to a full stop as far as progression and gearing goes. As it stands right now, higher and higher gear - sub-raid level gear - is simply becoming grind tokens that require no real skill to get, just put in 20-30 minutes a day and you'll have an upgrade, guaranteed. No real effort necessary. It's old news now, but when I got my first Darklight piece, I felt like a champ. Why? Cause I beat the Demon Wall. The ORIGINAL Demon Wall. It was tough, but I did it. And I learned a lot in doing it. Yeah, there were wipes, there were bad runs, but when I was able to pull it off consistently, and I got myself a Darklight Corset of Aiming, I was the champ, man.

We NEED that back. Gear currently has no value, because there's no value in the efforts made to get it. Primals have been on a down slope since Thordan, Alexander's (normal) loot system is more of a chore than actual incentive, and as soon as the 24 man raid offers better, it gets left in the dust. No one's going to run anything below A9 multiple times just to get a gear piece, even for glamour. 24 man content becomes avoided because people go expecting others to know how to do everything and do it for them, then wonder why no one's doing anything. We NEED the midcore, and it NEEDS to be a challenge.

This isn't me saying "Make EVERYTHING Coil levels of difficulty since it's an old raid!" This IS me saying we need those challenges that drive people to make LEARNING PARTIES again. Not clear parties, not carries, not "Skip this or life as we know it ends", legit learning parties. We need content that will push people to try and try and try, and look up guides, grab friends who know it or are also trying to learn it; hell MAKE friends who want to clear it just as bad as you do. We need a reason to WANT to progress, and not just do it for the sake of doing it; something to learn to conquer so that we can see what lies beyond it. Cause right now, we don't have that. We have "Skip Soar or disband [because you should be geared enough with all the handouts and know your job well enough by now to push the fight, and because I don't want to have to learn this mechanic]."

Soar: It's half-marker Ifrit dashes, single aoes, then a party soak and keep out mechanic.