Coils of Bahamut... and its inconsistent challenge level.

[Awful]

YSnip

I'm just gonna break this down for you okay, if you want a challenge do it sync'd minimum ilvl there's your challenge, look for it in PF PEOPLE HAVE TOLD YOU THIS YET YOU IGNORE IT. Secondly, if you want it for the "uber cool gear" you can also make the replica gear and still look like a badass, it doesn't even mean you have to do the friggen raid either but then again what'd be the whole point of this thread other then do it? SE won't revamp coil, and they won't do it in SB unless they do a special event (if you can even call it that) like they did with Proto Ultima in Dun Scaith, that's recycled old content that they just threw into a current content raid. That's a perfect example of old coil or run ARF and see some of the old bosses from first and second coil because they have similar mechanics, not that you'd know since you're playing the "pity me card".

I don't get what you're complaining about if you're already 60 getting level 50 gear, what do you thinks gonna happen it's going to scale to 60? Then what would be the point of running 60 dungeons if you're totally new? You outgear content, it's a gear treadmill is this your first MMO? Because you're not answering any questions related to your post in the first place you're out of touch with anyone in this thread honestly, we've all given you constructive feedback then you turned around on everyone sulking like a bab.

And there are rewards for doing 50 dungeons if you do any roulette's you got tomestones, it's why people still que for stuff at max level such as leveling, trial, 50, and MS roulette, just like how there's orchestration rolls in old coils for rewards as well as glamour. So no it's you that doesn't understand what you're talking about I think you should take a long look at why the game is structured why it is and how SE handles content, come back with something constructive instead of whining.

[Istaru]

Yeah totally, I'm just a totally in it for instant gratification,

....and rewards with no effort.... for going through a level 50 dungeon where you can't get anything relevant to you at level 60.... you sure nailed that one.

Wow you guys really just are that out of touch with the game and reality... and where it is currently...

In that case, would it be ok with you if, in return for removing the mechanics, they removed the story, minion, titles, gear, tomestones used for crafting, music sheets and wondrous stuff?

Because getting 50th level gear at level 60 is like uber and stuff so I can be like you right?

You will never be like me. I cleared T1-T13 and ARR EX primals synced. You could do that, but based upon your posts, you won't.

[HyoMinPark]

Well I was hoping to have it updated to level 60/70 content or finally just dropped to actual 50th level normal content to make it relevant again, since no one really runs it anymore.

That's funny. Considering I see several PFs up daily for "XXXX Coil of Bahamut - Turn X for WT ". Nope. People definitely aren't running it anymore.

But you know, after seeing the people here, they apparently really think this thing is "the latest uber raid" and not and old half assed relic from their glory days.... from a level that isn't even relevant anymore.

You can see it in what they say about it... they still honestly believe level 50 is like.... relevant and stuff. But even level 60 will be irrelevant after Stormblood.

You're the only one calling it "the latest uber raid." Please post quotes of where any of the other people posting in this thread have said such a (ridiculous) phrase.

And I mean, it's funny, considering that the two new jobs in Stormblood start off at LEVEL 50. Yep. Totally not a relevant level anymore. That was so two expansions ago.

Personally I was hoping this old relic could be made relevant in the current content.

See Wonderous Tails.

But like I said, after seeing the guys in these forums its questionable as to whether they even play this game seriously anymore they're that out of touch.... I'm sure the Devs know that too and no longer even bother coming here, so I agree this is a complete waste of time.

I think you're the one who doesn't play this game seriously. How many jobs do you have to 60? How many Savage raid tiers have you cleared? What about Ex primal mounts? Do you have them all? Have you even done the Ex primals?

I can guarantee you that everyone else here as done at least one of those things, if not all of them.

And if this is such a "complete waste of time," why do you continue to post? Hmm?

Yeah totally, I'm just a totally in it for instant gratification,

....and rewards with no effort.... for going through a level 50 dungeon where you can't get anything relevant to you at level 60.... you sure nailed that one.

I mean, you're the one asking for Coil to be nerfed even further into the ground than 20% automatic Echo. You want Coil to be like Level 50 dungeons, which are laughably easy even AT level because so many people complained when they were the least bit challenging (see: Amdapor Keep's Demon Wall boss and his now-removed Bees).

And, if you want to get technical, to get to 60, you kind of have to reach level 50 first. And what with two new jobs in Stormblood both starting at level 50, that makes the Final Coil gear pretty damn relevant, since you don't seem to think glamour counts (and everyone here will tell you that glamour is the true endgame of FFXIV).

Gonna just repost this lovely post for you to read again. Since you didn't bother to the first time, or else just didn't understand it.

You get lvl 50 gear because it is a lvl 50 raid. Plenty of people have also pointed out several reasons why others still go into the Bind Coils, gear for glamor (A lot of the dreadwyrm and allagan gear are really beautiful.) Music, tails, and the nice story attached to it. Expecting SE to make a lvl 50 raid give you lvl 60 gear cause you went in unsynced, well that's honestly silly and kinda laughable. If you want lvl 60 rewards, do the lvl 60 content.

Wow you guys really just are that out of touch with the game and reality... and where it is currently...

Because getting 50th level gear at level 60 is like uber and stuff so I can be like you right?

It's ironic that you're saying we're the out of touch ones when you keep sprouting off this crap. And contradicting yourself every other post. Pot calling the kettle black, I see.

But that last point is the REAL reason this sticks in your craw so much...

You can't handle that the game itself left your "achievements" in the dust as it outgrew them... and you for that matter.

Yeah back in the day this was like.. uber and stuff for you... but pssst that's Alexander and Dun now... and those will be left in ashes too once Stormblood comes out...

At least he/she earned their achievements. Rather than the ones who bought them. At least they had the skill to do the content back before it was nerfed at all. Something I don't think you would have even if they did redo Coil as a level 70 Stormblood raid because you can't even clear T11 unsynced at 60. Are you sure that this isn't the real reason this sticks in your craw so much? Or is it because everyone continues to disagree with you?

And really? Dun Scaith? The only thing that makes that 24-man-3.0-Crystal-Tower-Equivalent hard is when you have to carry entire alliances through Scathach, or Diabolos Hollow. The fights themselves--the mechanics themselves--are easy to learn, and easier to deal with. And Alexander Normal? It was easy upon release; people just made it hard because they didn't want to do mechanics and instead just press random buttons and hope they clear. Alexander NM =/= the Coils.



Like others have said: you need to git gud. Stop asking for nerfs, and actually learn how to handle mechanics. Because I think the devs are getting a little tired of people asking for nerfs, which is why they blatantly refused to nerf Ozma or Final Steps of Faith STORY MODE. Mechanics aren't going to go away. Even the most faceroll of dungeons still have mechanics (albeit, they don't necessarily have to be followed, or you can live by not following them, but that doesn't mean that they aren't there), and a lot of mechanics are recycled.

Sophia Ex tilting platform? Similar to Leviathan Ex's tilting platform (actually, the same designer did both fights). Recycled mechanic. Any duty that involves tethers, since tethers pop up in all sorts of different content: Zurvan Ex and A12S, to name two. Stack mechanics? Just about every other duty released has stack mechanics. Bahamut's Ahk Morns? Nidhogg NM and Ex has those! Dun Scaith has Earthshakers (T13), the mechanic where you keep the add and the boss separate, or else they get a damage/defense up buff (that's also in T13--if the Blood of Meracydia gets close to the Gusts and eats them, it gets damage up stacks!), and even Doom mechanics, which you first see in Sunken Temple of Qarn--a level 35 dungeon. Not to mention the ever-prevalent look away mechanics with a large, red eyeball that people still mess up. Meteors like the ones in World of Darkness? Hey, those are in Dun Scaith, too! Meteors from T9? Ozma from Weeping City. And those can still screw you over if they aren't dropped in the correct areas. Towers that you have to stand in from T13? Thordan Ex and Sephirot Ex say hi. The Proto Ultima fight is basically the Ultima fight from Praetorium and his Hard Mode trial, except with prototype bits (also from Praetorium) and dreadnaughts (hey, those are from T4), and he hits harder.

You say it's "irrelevant" to learn level 50 mechanics when you're level 60. Well, what if you decide to level another job? Guess what? Those level 50 mechanics and that level 50 gear that you say is so "irrelevant" just became relevant for you. You have to be level 50 before you can be 60, and level 60 before you can be 70, and so on and so forth. And as others have said, these mechanics will continue to pop up in future duties, so best to learn them now so you're prepared for when they show up again. Mechanics never become irrelevant when they continue to be reused in each patch of new content.


Git gud. Learn mechanics. Stop asking for nerfs, and actually earn your achievements, since you seem to think that's all we care about (are you sure that's you you're talking about here?). I didn't earn my current title, nor any of my 8 birbs, by ignoring mechanics and asking for fights to be nerfed, and then whining when they weren't. I earned my title and (most of) my mounts the hard way: through farming challenging content, dealing with multiple trap parties, dealing with wipe after wipe because people just wanted to faceroll SephEx or Thordan Ex, or just blatantly skip the Soar mechanic in Zurvan Ex, which isn't even that difficult to learn. The only birbs I cannot count as "challenging" were Ravana and Bismarck, just because I did those so late after their release, and so overgeared (and RavEx is just laughable now...it's kind of sad). I bore through all of that, and I was rewarded. And I earned those rewards. Earn your rewards like the rest of us had to do. And you know, maybe they won't matter come 4.0 or 5.0 or 10.0, but they mattered at some point in my FFXIV career, and that's all I need. I earned them; I didn't buy them like some others did.

The more you post--the more your posts devolve into some mindless banter--the less seriously anyone and everyone is going to take you. You're not helping your case by lashing out at posters because they don't agree with you, or don't want to pad your ego, or coddle you. Or by continuing to use the word "uber." I haven't heard that word in years.

And please. For the love of Hydaelyn, learn some proper grammar and syntax. I'm not sure what's harder to read: your childish bantering, or the complete lack of proper punctuation. Not every sentence needs to end in ellipses.

Okay. I think that's enough replying for today. I don't have many posts left in my limit anyways until tomorrow afternoon. Which this will probably still be going by then, going in the same circles like it is now. So I won't really miss anything.

(Apologies to everyone for the ridiculously long post, but it's the only one I have at the moment. And some of you guys posting in here? I freaking love you. Your responses are amazingly sarcastic and truthful.)

[Vidu]

I'm not. I think it is yet another person that wants everything without any effort.

To be fair: I can "understand" him to an extend - he seems fairly new to the game, it appears he hasnt done any content that we'd consider "endgame" (as in: EX-primals, Savage raids) and is therefore ofc used to content that is cleared and done within 30 minutes and mostly without any wipes.

And then he sticks his head into content that he expectes to be overgeared for and has to face mechanics that cant be ignored, where the party has actually to try and mistakes get punished. I can even understand why he'd be upset when a bunch of people is telling him "Listen, this content isnt to bad, you just have to do it right" when it appears he cant do that (or dont want to)

Thats the problem with normal dungeons in this game being so extremly easy - it creates a huge gap between "real raids" (no, 24 man and Alex NM do NOT count, sorry) and day to day content. And if you're not aware of this gap and have accepted that its simply there because the game is trying to meet two demands (casual playing for a few hours, but still progressing - and the wish for challenges) - you might stumble about it.

However, everyone here tried to point that out to OP - with the emphasis, that they like having challenges in the game aswell. So either OP comes around to the same way of thinking or they accept that there is content that isnt for them then - just like a friend of mine accepted that crafting isnt for him or how I accepted that fishing is the WORST. As long as a majority of people doesnt agree with something, its likely that that something isnt broken. You dont need to have your head in the clouds (like OP claims we do) to like having a challenge in the game. Even if that challenge doesnt provide you with relevant rewards anymore - except for the story, that will always be relevant and the feeling of "Yes, we (finally) cleared this! Good job everyone!"

Yeah totally, I'm just a totally in it for instant gratification,

....and rewards with no effort.... for going through a level 50 dungeon where you can't get anything relevant to you at level 60.... you sure nailed that one.

Wow you guys really just are that out of touch with the game and reality... and where it is currently...

Because getting 50th level gear at level 60 is like uber and stuff so I can be like you right?

Now, beside all the relevant rewards that have been mentioned several times - glamour, music, in a sense even the gear is still useful when leveling an alt character (Final Coil gera can easly last you til level 56 or so!), upgrade items for gear thats used by alt characters, making Khloe happy, a minion and a title from the achievments, story... (actually the story was always the real reward for me - I never cared about the gear) - some people might enjoy the challenge for the challenge itself. They dont need a carrot on the stick. They dont need any artifical reason. They just want to challenge themself and see "hey, can I/we do this?"

[Settiesama]

Taking bets he'll reply with something completely irrelevant to what we've all just posted.

[Vincent_Mateus]

Maybe you should try and actually improve your gameplay and beat averagely difficult content instead of asking for nerfs. What's insulting about this post, is that you act like coil was ever popular in the duty finder to begin with. It was essentially Alexander Savage. Scrubs weren't trying to go into it, and if you couldn't handle it, tough. I for one would help people clear, and still help people clear that either want to see the story, or accept the challenge of an epic raid. The devs don't need to revamp this to 60/70 content because of a single, lazy, entitled player wants it. Most of us would rather have more challenging raids, more options for raids, or more 'new' content in general.

[Vidu]

The only thing its worth at this point is the Tomestones... and those you can get from any given level 50 dungeon... that and storyline since it links the 1.0 story to ARR...

Other than that... name me anything of value in there at level 60... other than maybe a glamor option... of which it can all be crafted anyway.


But that last point is the REAL reason this sticks in your craw so much...

You can't handle that the game itself left your "achievements" in the dust as it outgrew them... and you for that matter.

Yeah back in the day this was like.. uber and stuff for you... but pssst that's Alexander and Dun now... and those will be left in ashes too once Stormblood comes out...

You're that out of touch with reality...

The only way your "achievements" live on is if Bahamut gets updated to the current level content and made relevent... but if that's too much... then you may as well just drop it back down to normal level 50 content... because that's all its worth at this point.

Right now its just a half assed relic from your "glory days"... but pretty much irrelevent in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, we might not be able to handle that the content is collecting dust now - but other than you we're able to handle the content

Again, the reward for me is and always will be challenge itself - something you dismiss so much that I'm pretty sure you dont care for it at all. Which is sad, but okay - your way of enjoying the game doesnt has to fit my way of enjoying the game.

Dun Scaith is a joke. Alexander NM is a joke. I hope you dont think you're somewhat super great because you managed to beat the storymode version of Alexander. Please tell me - have you ever set foot in Savage? Maybe that will show you that this game has actual challenges to offer - and it needs more, not less! Nerfing coil to the level of level 50 dungeons would remove challenging content from the game for no good reason. Trust me: its possible to beat this content - if you want to...

To remind you of rewards again:
- minion and title (one time from the achievment)
- All turns except T3 count towards the tank-mount-achievement - that is ofc not exclusive to coil, but they still do
- gear that can still be used for alt classes - seeing how you're only having one class at 60, that could still be very relevant. My monk was wearing FCoB-gear for the best part of his leveling life
- WT/Khloe
- orchestrion scrolls
- story (and getting to spend time with Urianger and Alisiae <3)
- challenge itself - I dont need a reward, I do things to challenge myself.

I didnt mentioned "glamour" because you dont want to hear that - instead you got a list of other rewards - happy?

Oh yeah because like... I totally want to go through a 50th level dungeon at level 60 to learn mechanics that are completely irrelevent at my level when I could be doing other mechanics in much harder content at level 60...

Hell in Sophia Ex alone the mechanics are far worse than anything I saw in Coils...

I lost count on how many HW-mechanics are coming from coil - starting with that plant boss in Sohm Al NM whos basically T6 for toddlers, going all the way to earthshakers (coming from T13) in both Dun Scaith and Seph trials. Towers in Thordan Ex are T13 - Thordan also has a clear reference to T10.
Having beaten all that content before HW gave me a huge advantage because I look at fights and see certain things that I know from coil - so I'm immidiaitly "Ah, thats just like TXY!"
In a sense you could say that unsyched Coil provides you with a relativly "safe space" to learn about mechanics that are being re-used over and over again. (It works both ways ofc - if you've cleared HW-content and you go back to coil you'll most likely be "Aaah, this is where its from! Okay, I have an idea what to do!")

So... Sophia EX is far worse than Coil (I beg to differ btw - shes one of the easier EX-primals in HW; highly scripted with a pretty decent tolerance for mistakes) but its Coil you cant beat? How does this makes sense here? If Coil is easier than Sophia EX whats your problem? If you can learn mechanics for Sophia EX, why cant you learn mechanics for T11?
(I'll give you one thing here though: Sophia borrows little from coil - still, awesome fight, beautiful dance once you've learned the mechanics!)

That IS the point my friend... I DID... do the mechanics... until we got to the Final Coil turn two and the it broke the instance because it couldn't kill us at level 60.

You've started with telling us that you failed to properly handle the adds in T11... so you've failed the mechanics - if that resulted indeed in the instance bugging out, thats a technical error that should be adressed, but not more.
You still didnt do the mechanics... or well, dont know, maybe you tried to do them but failed.

[Crysten]

Hell in Sophia Ex alone the mechanics are far worse than anything I saw in Coils...

[Settiesama]

That IS the point my friend... I DID... do the mechanics... until we got to the Final Coil turn two and the it broke the instance because it couldn't kill us at level 60.

I've actually given up trying to give reasonable responses, he ignores them anyway.

[Silverquick]

I've actually given up trying to give reasonable responses, he ignores them anyway.

Don't worry that's the way I look at you...

You're so out of touch with where the game actually is its like you got stuck at level 50... and are still there.

But that's ok, I saw a lot of that in this thread. Its why I seriously wonder if you guys even play this game anymore... none of the things out there are anywhere even close to whatever it was you thought it was.

You guys are just literally that out of touch with the game and where it is now.