From all thread that asking content (hardcore vs casual) : sum up objectiveto SE

[Xatsh]

Nothing in a mmo is challenging once the strategy is down.

Ifrit and Darkhold where both absurdly hard until people figured them out, in a mmo the only thing that is not easy to figure out is PvP because of the person playing it. Programed mechanics follow a pattern once it is figure out it is easily beaten.


The hard content that is short is ok but they need a ton of it enough of it at least 5 fold what is in game now released every 2 weeks max (due to development this is not realistic either). Hardcore/Casual is a time based so if the fight is unbelievably hard but last 15mins.... well there better be enough of that stuff for me to be able to play 40+hrs a week as a hardcore and not get bored of content. That is where the hardcores are now. We want hard content and we want enough that we do not have to do the same crap every night of the week.

Making hard-quick content I feel will not work, that is casual content (hard casual content but casual content non the less). It has nothing for the hardcores because it will still be short lived once mastered. Add content that is tiered, look at Voidwatch nms/znms/and such from XI. Make a full set of NMs take 10hrs to go all the way through, make multiple paths, make it only be claimed to the group who spawns to prevent greifing bots. Make the content be valid for at the min a years worth of time.

Hardcore and Casual are not a measure of difficulty. Not being able to beat hardstuff does not make you casual it makes you a bad player. Casual can play a limited time, hardcore can play this like a 2nd job.

There is no content that will work for both groups. Casual do not want to work for months to get gear, and hardcore do not want to complete the content in 1-2 weeks time. There is simply nothing that will work. Hardcores getting content first is the problem we have with this game and other mmos that are casual focused to begin with. We do not want to get everything fast due to our playtime.

To make everyone happy, the devs must make both types of content ignoring the other side. casual content needs to be made without hardcore in mind (so casual trully have something they like), and the game must have hardcore in mind where the casual simply can/will not enjoy it (so hardcores trully have something they can do and not get bored of).

Making everyone happy is why no one likes the game atm.........

[Lienn]

Making everyone happy is why no one likes the game atm.........

This is the truth i've been rubbing at dev team face for like 3+ months...No game can please everyone...so they should focus on the way they chose...if they want to make a FFXI clone meant to offer korean e-peen to hardcore and poo overtime to casuals, so be it.

Until they accept it and focus on what they decided to do this game will keep failing. If they want a HC game then they should make a HC game. They could make a game where Vrtra, Absolute Virtue, Pandemonium Warden and other FFXI HC idols were child play. Make stuff so hard they can keep track of how many of that items are availble per server like they did with Relic weapons...but stop trying to please everyone.

This is also why i tell them the best thing that can happen to current FFXIV is the revival of the original FFXIV...this would allow the dev team to focus on 2.0 as a pure HC game and leave the casuals looking nice and doing easy(ish...just look at great buffalo...it never was really an easy content until party size was chopped down to 8), entertaining and fun stuff at original FFXIV.

"to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's"...or maybe "to HC what is HC's and to casual what is casual's"

[Silma]

This is the truth i've been rubbing at dev team face for like 3+ months...No game can please everyone...

the solution is different server !!!!!!!!

Please refrain from making such definitive statements. As pointed Amyrae, Yoshi-P already said there will be content for "both" type of players. You CAN have content that pleases everyone, just look at that MMO with 14M subscribers. And you CAN NOT have servers to seggregate people. That being said, as I pointed in another thread, difficult content is really what defines a game.

Hardcore dost not mean time sink.
There is no opposition between "casual" and "hardcore".

I think the best comment here so far is :

They need brainstorming.

They need manpower, several teams of developpers, time to think, create and test content. Ask the point of view of players about this or that idea. Post official polls on what content they want to be introduced next. Use their community which is the most precious treasure they have. Do not nerf content too fast.

[Lienn]

Please refrain from making such definitive statements. As pointed Amyrae, Yoshi-P already said there will be content for "both" type of players. You CAN have content that pleases everyone, just look at that MMO with 14M subscribers.

No, man...a game cannot please everyone. Not a single game can. Every person has its own preferences so, unless you make a game with universal options where every person can set it the way they want, you won't please everyone.

An example is FFXI. It's a hell of a game...surely of of the top 5 FFs ever made...still, not everyone like it. FFVII? Awesome, but some don't like it either...Rock Band? Mario Kart? Cooking Mama? Resident Evil? The answer is always the same...no game can please everyone. The day someone discover a game who pleases everyone, he will take over the market.

And here we get to the point Xtash said...this proposal of "trying" to please everyone is actually what is f'ing up FFXIV...not because he's putting content oriented to certain player groups, but because he's splitting the effort between them. If you look at FFXI you will see that it is oriented to HC and party play...and this is why it was successful. They knew who they wanted to please so it was much easier to do it.

Here we have a proverb..."Those who try to please everyone pleases no one."...i'm not sure if there is an english version of it, but this says it all about what Yoshida is trying to do.

EDIT:

And you CAN NOT have servers to seggregate people.

Forgot to say...i agree completely with you about this. I support the global server concept, which means the very same servers to everyone. I'm against any kind of server seggregation, no matter if based on region, language or PvE/PvP or any other kind of preferences.

[AmyRae]

Here we have a proverb..."Those who try to please everyone pleases no one."...i'm not sure if there is an english version of it, but this says it all about what Yoshida is trying to do.

It doesn't apply here.

If you insist on an MMO that's so difficult that casual players will not play it, then the MMO won't make enough money to stay afloat. So, the consequence of not pleasing casual players, people keep the game alive through their vast numbers and treasure, is that hardcore players lose their game because there's not enough of them to support it through subscriptions.

Besides, there are plenty of examples out there where casual and hardcore content live side-by-side. That's just the reality of the situation.