A Crazy Solution To The Growing Problems of Inadequate Preparation For Duties.

[SenorPatty]

What I agree with: requirements beyond ilvl such as equipped job and having learned a certain amount of skills beforehand. No, its not going to stop bad players from being bad but it does go a long way for accountability.

Class quests need to be revamped in the form of adding actual gameplay of new skill obtained. This is useful for the new people who want to learn. Keep the class stories but add a mini "smith" instance for learning bane for example.

Enhance the tooltip by suggesting priority moves. For example, they could put a star on heavy trust or hot shot, with the class trainer heavily suggesting to start the dps with those skills first.

I'm going to end this by saying I don't actually believe there's an increase of bad players. All potd has done is basically take a flashlight and show where the roaches have been hiding all along.

[Kaethra]

Class quests need to be revamped in the form of adding actual gameplay of new skill obtained. This is useful for the new people who want to learn. Keep the class stories but add a mini "smith" instance for learning bane for example.

Here's why this doesn't work.

The class/job quests are solo. Not only are they soloable, you cannot be in a group when you do them. Let me ask this question. How do you learn to group, by soloing? With AI group members that act in predictable patterns versus human controlled which can never be accounted for?

You all want to fix the problem? I'll give you a fix. Revamp all dungeons. Start with Sastasha. Sastasha is now as difficult as Baelsar's Wall is currently. Ramp up the difficulty of dungeons from that point onward. THAT will teach players through a baptism of fire how to play with others.

There's the real issue. All of the dungeons in FFXIV are too easy. That's why players are being lazy. Because they can. Not because of a lack of tutorial. Go ahead.. join the roulette until you find an underperforming player. Ask them if they need a tutorial. If they don't tell you to do something explicit to yourself, I'll be surprised.

[ErikMynhier]

Older MMO's suffered from this problem too, people underperfoming is nothing new. However, back then communities where smaller and more "brutal" so you could become a paria in a server and almost no one will party up with you.

I can vouch for this right here. I'm a vet of EQ/NWN/RO/FFXI and can tell you there was never a nostalgically magical time where bad players were not bad. I've seen Shadowknights try to be pure casters in Everquest. I have seen Thieves try and tank in FFXI because "ninjas can so I can too". And I have seen all kinds of nonsense. Bad players are nothing new.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

I'm a good player... not the best player though. But I don't want to "improve", not so much because of a lack of desire but rather I don't like what I'd have to do to "improve".

I choose to heal primarily because none of the dps classes are appealing to me. Why? Because they are all just too damn complex for me. I can't handle the finger gymnastics required to do the rotations with all the "if this then this, but if this then this, and be in this position to do that at highest potency" or the "use uber ability, but can only use it while you have these two buffs from these two other abilities and if one or the other falls off you cant use uber ability anymore". So I heal. I'm good at healing. I even do some ok dps when my party mates aren't standing in bad and taking unnecessary damage.

Outside of not being accuracy capped on my healers (cause I don't do savage content), I'd like to think I play at pretty close to optimal as WHM. I am aware that ex primals also need accuracy but with SB on the horizon and a possibility of accuracy going away entirely, I'm holding off on juggling materia for accuracy for content I rarely if ever touch. I dps often as WHM and manage my MP well. Outside of being accuracy capped, I am hard pressed to think of any other way to improve.

On SCH, I am less optimal. Why? Because I use a macro to eliminate some of the finger gymnastics involved. Mainly I have Broil macroed to make my fairy cast embrace on my target's target (and I'm the type of player that spams a button even during the gcd). It makes dungeon healing super easy for me and let's me dps more since fairy is spamming embrace on the tank (or whoever pulls aggro off the tank). Not having to micromanage embrace eliminates a button I have to worry about. I still keep her in obey and use her cooldowns at opportune times, but despite the fact that macros are "bad", I play "better" with that macro than I would without. It'll be cold day in hell before I stop using my sch macro.

On AST, I think I play pretty decently, but I sometimes find managing the card buffs distracting. If I worry too much about them people aren't getting healed, if I don't worry about them enough people aren't getting buffed. I don't think AST is overly complex though and I just chalk it up to it just not being my cup of tea. I can play it well enough that no one would complain but at the same time no one would be impressed either.

I want nothing to do with Ninja mudras, and Monk sequences and maintenance buffs aren't fun to keep track of for me. Positional abilities are also a huge turn off for me if it goes beyond "be behind the mob". Having a mix of flank and back attacks is just too hectic a playstyle for me. And that's ok. Not everything has to be tailored to me. But I do make it a point to avoid group content with these classes so I don't subject anyone to my badness while I level them.

Bard was actually decent... until 52+ when Wanderer's Minuet enters the equation. I also use a macro for Bard as well. It's one I think was common prior to Wanderer's Minuet. Heavy Shot is macroed with Misery's End and Bloodletter, again to eliminate some of the finger gymnastics. I perform "better" with the macro that I do without. For me to improve here would mean not using my macro and to somehow become nimble enough to handle those finger gymnastics which at my age is just not going to happen. I do well enough that no one complains and I even get comms from time to time. As I said about SCH, it'll be a cold day in hell before I give up my macro.

I tend to avoid tanking just because its a lot of pressure and I am very uncomfortable in a leadership role. That said, I'm not awful at it as long as I don't try to do some of the crazy insane pulls I've had tanks do when I am healing. I'm just not confident enough to pull that off yet. Maybe someday but not today. Four or five hard hitting mobs at a time is about the most I am comfortable handling right now.

Now if you got this far in my wall of text, you might be saying, "this topic isn't about players like you". To that I say, maybe not, but there's definitely more people out there who like the idea of a class, but just don't like how certain aspects of it play and try to play those classes without getting involved in the deeper intricacies of what makes a class shine. For example, I'm a fairly adequate BLM... as long as I'm synced down to 56 or below. Why? Cause I can't handle managing Enochian/FireIV/BlizzardIV effectively. Again the finger gymnastics are too much for me. But I do like the other aspects of BLM and would probably play it more often if not for the whole Enochian thing. As long as I am synced 56 or below, I do fairly well (not the best but well enough to get comms), but there's no chance of me "improving" from that point. With changes coming in Stormblood however, that may change.

How many players are out there like me who like a class but certain aspects of it, the aspects that ultimately push it to where it should be, completely throw them off? I'm sure there's a fair number of them. Unlike me however, many of them probably try to play the class in group situations regardless. I'm not sure tutorial quests would help much for these people. Understanding the idea behind how something works and actually being capable of putting that understanding into action are two very different things.

[Kaethra]

I choose to heal primarily because none of the dps classes are appealing to me. Why? Because they are all just too damn complex for me. I can't handle the finger gymnastics required to do the rotations

I think you're selling yourself short to be honest. But one thing I've found to be helpful is a MMO Mouse. I personally use the G600 from Logitech (I actually have two of them, one for PC and one for my laptop). I've heard the Naga from Razer is improved (when I used it, it broke in 6 months). The Scimitar from Corsair is a good mouse, though Corsair's software is buggy at times.

It takes time to get used to the 12 button grid, but you're only using a thumb for the 'gymnastics'. And between alt and ctrl, you've got 36 buttons on your thumb. Once you get it down, you never want to go back. I just don't have the manual dexterity I used to even when I played in 2.0 in 2014. But my mouse allows me to not only keep up, but improve my reaction times and potential.

Great thing about these mice is the price isn't more than a standard gaming mouse these days. Usually $40-60.

[SenorPatty]

Here's why this doesn't work.

I should've been more specific. The suggestions below the first paragraph are not for trying to solve the bad player issue (in this context, bad meaning no interest in performing well). It's for players who are legitly ignorant or have difficulty understanding how a skill they just obtained works.

As for our "bad" player issue, just rampinh up difficulty is too broad and vague to enforce draconian play.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

I think you're selling yourself short to be honest. But one thing I've found to be helpful is a MMO Mouse. I personally use the G600 from Logitech (I actually have two of them, one for PC and one for my laptop). I've heard the Naga from Razer is improved (when I used it, it broke in 6 months). The Scimitar from Corsair is a good mouse, though Corsair's software is buggy at times.

It takes time to get used to the 12 button grid, but you're only using a thumb for the 'gymnastics'. And between alt and ctrl, you've got 36 buttons on your thumb. Once you get it down, you never want to go back. I just don't have the manual dexterity I used to even when I played in 2.0 in 2014. But my mouse allows me to not only keep up, but improve my reaction times and potential.

Great thing about these mice is the price isn't more than a standard gaming mouse these days. Usually $40-60.

The idea of 12 buttons on my mouse makes my head spin >.<

I wouldn't be able to keep track of what button my thumb was on... I can barely handle the 2 thumb buttons I have right now along with some shift/ctrl combos. The answer to being able to comfortably play a class should not be "buy new hardware" IMO. Like I said in my original post, I could be "better" than I am but I don't want to do what's necessary to be "better" because its not only not comfortable physically, but its just plain not fun for me.

[SpiritMuse]

Like I said in my original post, I could be "better" than I am but I don't want to do what's necessary to be "better" because its not only not comfortable physically, but its just plain not fun for me.

I don't know if you play consoles, but if you do you might want to give the controller a try. I play on PS4 and it works perfectly. I honestly can't imagine myself playing on keyboard & mouse. Holding ctrl and/or alt while trying to reach the number keys alone is, as you say, finger gymnastics on a level I can't imagine would be comfortable for anyone. The controller, on the other hand, requires very little finger movement, every button is right under your thumb or forefinger and easy to hit. It's a dream.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

I don't know if you play consoles, but if you do you might want to give the controller a try. I play on PS4 and it works perfectly. I honestly can't imagine myself playing on keyboard & mouse. Holding ctrl and/or alt while trying to reach the number keys alone is, as you say, finger gymnastics on a level I can't imagine would be comfortable for anyone. The controller, on the other hand, requires very little finger movement, every button is right under your thumb or forefinger and easy to hit. It's a dream.

I'm more comfy with a keyboard + mouse... using shift/ctrl for binds isnt bad cause my pinky is usually right over them so its just a slight adjustment to press them and still hit W to move+steer with mouse. ive played mmo's for decades with a keyboard + mouse, the idea of using a game controller isn't something I'm really interested in.

[Elim]

I think people believe they know how to play but I disagree that 95% and are just lazy and know how

^^^

Lol. It's very rare to come across DPS that are actually good. Most of the time I beat PUG DPS with my tank or healer.