A Crazy Solution To The Growing Problems of Inadequate Preparation For Duties.

[SenorPatty]

What I agree with: requirements beyond ilvl such as equipped job and having learned a certain amount of skills beforehand. No, its not going to stop bad players from being bad but it does go a long way for accountability.

Class quests need to be revamped in the form of adding actual gameplay of new skill obtained. This is useful for the new people who want to learn. Keep the class stories but add a mini "smith" instance for learning bane for example.

Enhance the tooltip by suggesting priority moves. For example, they could put a star on heavy trust or hot shot, with the class trainer heavily suggesting to start the dps with those skills first.

I'm going to end this by saying I don't actually believe there's an increase of bad players. All potd has done is basically take a flashlight and show where the roaches have been hiding all along.

[Kaethra]

Class quests need to be revamped in the form of adding actual gameplay of new skill obtained. This is useful for the new people who want to learn. Keep the class stories but add a mini "smith" instance for learning bane for example.

Here's why this doesn't work.

The class/job quests are solo. Not only are they soloable, you cannot be in a group when you do them. Let me ask this question. How do you learn to group, by soloing? With AI group members that act in predictable patterns versus human controlled which can never be accounted for?

You all want to fix the problem? I'll give you a fix. Revamp all dungeons. Start with Sastasha. Sastasha is now as difficult as Baelsar's Wall is currently. Ramp up the difficulty of dungeons from that point onward. THAT will teach players through a baptism of fire how to play with others.

There's the real issue. All of the dungeons in FFXIV are too easy. That's why players are being lazy. Because they can. Not because of a lack of tutorial. Go ahead.. join the roulette until you find an underperforming player. Ask them if they need a tutorial. If they don't tell you to do something explicit to yourself, I'll be surprised.

[thegreatonemal]

Here's why this doesn't work.



You all want to fix the problem? I'll give you a fix. Revamp all dungeons. Start with Sastasha. Sastasha is now as difficult as Baelsar's Wall is currently. Ramp up the difficulty of dungeons from that point onward. THAT will teach players through a baptism of fire how to play with others.

Ramp out difficulty how? People really need to stop saying this. the dungeons are easy because you are overpowered for them do them at the item level they require to get in and you'll find a bit of resistance. GCD style mmos are not hard and can't really be made hard. the only way to make this game "hard" is to make every aoe an instant kill, auto attacks of everything hit like mini tank busters and cleave, Raid wide aoe damage that nearly kills everyone every 15 seconds or so.

[Kaethra]

Ramp out difficulty how? People really need to stop saying this. the dungeons are easy because you are overpowered for them do them at the item level they require to get in and you'll find a bit of resistance.

1. Heavier item scaling. A level 15 dungeon scales you to ilevel 15 for example.
2. More complex mechanics. Telegraphs like you'd see in higher areas. 'Eye' type AoEs you have to look away for.
3. Debuffs that need to be cleaned off (I'd make Leeches/Exalted Detriment available at 15 for this)
4. Basically all the issues people say people have problems with, introduce them earlier so people learn them.

GCD style mmos are not hard and can't really be made hard. the only way to make this game "hard" is to make every aoe an instant kill, auto attacks of everything hit like mini tank busters and cleave, Raid wide aoe damage that nearly kills everyone every 15 seconds or so.

If this was true. This thread would be irrelevant. If GCD MMOs are not hard, then there is no need for tutorials or practice. Just have savage style 'difficulty' from the first dungeon onwards.

[Paladinleeds]

1. Heavier item scaling. A level 15 dungeon scales you to ilevel 15 for example.

Now this is something I'd love to see implemented on a much wider scale... but it'd kill off content quite hard I feel - you see people want superzergrushmustkillinrecordtimenostoppingjustgogogogogogogo - make content more difficult and people will try to avoid it where possible (even going so far as to quit the game if needed, which is bad business for SE). So I'm not sure if this would work.

[Kaethra]

Now this is something I'd love to see implemented on a much wider scale... but it'd kill off content quite hard I feel - you see people want superzergrushmustkillinrecordtimenostoppingjustgogogogogogogo - make content more difficult and people will try to avoid it where possible (even going so far as to quit the game if needed, which is bad business for SE). So I'm not sure if this would work.

Slightly off topic, but yeah I won't lie that I have a slight bias towards getting that implemented.

I just did some older dungeons with a friend who came back today. I was not punished as hard as I should have been for mistakes I've made in content that I haven't played in a minute. But due to how items scale (even my friend's ilvl 90 stuff was blowing through), its a snooze fest. I mean I can make a mistake, realize I made it, and then cover for it and I'm good. Its like riding a bike.

But what about those newbies that get stuck in the run with some of us vets (gearwise)? They don't get the same experience I did in 2.0. Let's bring that back. Those that want quick runs can grind FATES till 60 and run their stuff unsync'd. I don't care about them. I want my nostalgia and I want to share it with newbies. They'll be better for it.

[Kosmos992k]

When I first read the title it sounded liks some new sardonic slice of life RPG comedic Anime....but it wasn't.

As someone has already said, and I frequently point out in topics about damage meters and parsers, no amount of cajoling or nudging, or restrictions or tutorials will make players who don't want to improve, or don't see the need to improve, improve. It always comes back to this;

1. Players that want to improve will improve, no matter what facilities the game offers - because they read their skill descriptions, listen to advice and try things out.
2. Players that do not want or care to, will not improve, until such time as they want to.
3. Nothing can change 1 or 2 above.

Ramp out difficulty how? People really need to stop saying this. the dungeons are easy because you are overpowered for them do them at the item level they require to get in and you'll find a bit of resistance.

This seems to be a kind of mental blindspot in the FFXIV community in general. The perception that dungeons are easy as pie comes from being overgeared regardless of level sync, because both level and ilvl sync do not strongly enough nerf you, and in content with no sync, overgearing is horrendous.

The best examples are the original hard mode primals, specifically Garuda and Titan. Mention those now and people at like they are nothing but cake walks. Except that when encountered in 2013 with gear in the ilvl 60-80 range. The funny thing about it is that I just looked up a thread on a gaming site from then and someone is talking about requiring ilvl 90 gear, especially on DPS, for Titan. Titan was more about the AoE dance, tanks who knew how to handle Tumult and everyone making the DPS check during the heart phase. Of course back then Garuda got to deploy her mechanics before she was burned to the ground and the tank had to move her around the arena correctly to prevent the party wiping. But, with appropriate gear those fights were a challenge, and a lot of parties wiped, and ultimately needed the rather sad nerfs and Echo that were applied later.

But the point is exactly what you said "dungeons are easy because you are overpowered". Every time someone whines about dungeons being too easy, I think I will need to requote you, or at least paraphrase you.