Put back Extreme trial on raid finder again...please

[Vidu]

The thing is Vidu what the op is currently asking on his threat is to put old outdated content back in the rf

What the OP actually wants its the means to queue for this content while selecting a "everyone I'm queueing with has cleared this"-option. This content being out for months doesnt magically make it so easy that it can be pugged with newbies if you want to farm it. The reason to have it in RF (or in DF, with that cleared-option) is that thats making it possible to actually farm that content without having to make a party in PF and commit to that.
And even IF you make a farm-party the cleared-option was pretty helpful to make sure everyone who joined your party had cleared this content - without having to load in, see the bonus-message and watch your party fall apart because tehy feel betrayed by seing bonus in a farm.
Extreme primals are still a challenge - as they should be! - even with them being a few months old. Mechanics dont disappear, not everything can be skipped, this content still isnt faceroll easy. Thordan EX, despite being a year old or so, hasnt gotten DF-first-timer.going-in-blind-but-getting-the-kill-within-30minutes-easy yet.

The counter-argument for this cant be "but poor newbies cant have any fun this way!" because they shouldnt have fun at the cost of other peoples (those who'd still like to farm the content in DF/RF) fun - which is what happens right now though.

I mean, now you've basically screwed everyone except the people who only wnat to see phase 1, wipe for an hour and then never touch that content again because they know now that its not the fluffy cakewalk they want - people who would like to farm and were able to use the RF/DF before, cant do that anymore.

[Talraen]

The counter-argument for this cant be "but poor newbies cant have any fun this way!" because they shouldnt have fun at the cost of other peoples (those who'd still like to farm the content in DF/RF) fun - which is what happens right now though.

"Newbies shouldn't have fun at the cost of other people's fun." Thus, we can conclude that newbies are having fun queuing in duty finder. Whereas you have fun farming. So farmers should have fun at the cost of other people's (newbies) fun. Yes, I think we can in fact call this hypocritical!

[Vidu]

"Newbies shouldn't have fun at the cost of other people's fun." Thus, we can conclude that newbies are having fun queuing in duty finder. Whereas you have fun farming. So farmers should have fun at the cost of other people's (newbies) fun. Yes, I think we can in fact call this hypocritical!

Nope - as a farmer I'm not having fun at the cost of other peoples fun just because I dont want to help them right now.
Newbies can still have fun and queue for their stuff - if there are enough people who share their version of fun (as in: learning the fight), good for them! If there are not - to bad.
Same applies to people who want to farm the content - if they queue up and enough people have the same goal, good for them! If there arent enough people - to bad.

But if you put a newbie and a farmer into a party, the newbie will get what they want out of this: Practise the fight, maybe even see later phases because they're now having an experienced person at their side (even if they wont explain, thats a huge benefit since that person knows what they're doing and wont wipe them). The farmer, however will not get what they want: If they get a kill at all, it will take much longer than it should.
So yes, the newbie had their fun there. The farmer didnt.

You are, again, focussed on the experience of the newbie who seem to need the help of the farmer so bad that it will ruin their experience if they dont get it.
My absence of a fight doesnt ruin the experience of a new person - their presence in a farm-group does ruin the experience for the people who want to farm.
If you want to conclude that someone who doesnt want to queue up for "learning" is ruining the fun for people who want to learn the fight, anyone who doesnt queue up for the EX-primals right now is runing the fun of those who do.

So... I hope you are in queue for every content in the game right now because if you're not you're ruining the fun of everyone who tries to get into Sastasha NM, Titan HM, Zurvan EX and Frontlines.

I am not surprised. This community always wanting put walls.

I have a better idea. Let's not let any new player even start the game. You know ,those scrubs don't deserve play. Only for veterans. And no one more.

/sarcasm.

No one here is saying that new people shouldnt play the game or shouldnt learn those fights *sigh*
We're simply saying that those who have learend the fights should be able to follow their own goals aswell by using the DF.
I shouldnt have to put new peoples intrests infront of my own all the time - which is excatly what the DF is asking of me right now, because I cant queue with people who share my goal of clearing/farming the fight anymore.

PF allows you to set up both learning and farming parties - why should DF not allow you to do the same? Because its unfair to new people not being paired up with those who dont even want to be there to teach and help anymore?

[Talraen]

Nope - as a farmer I'm not having fun at the cost of other peoples fun just because I dont want to help them right now.
Newbies can still have fun and queue for their stuff - if there are enough people who share their version of fun (as in: learning the fight), good for them! If there are not - to bad.
Same applies to people who want to farm the content - if they queue up and enough people have the same goal, good for them! If there arent enough people - to bad.

That's how the system works right now, with duty finder and party finder as the only options. If you add the raid finder with a "only people who have cleared this content" option, there will be some people (not you) who would have used the duty finder but will instead use the option, thus reducing the pool of good players available to help new players. Thus there will be less "people who share their version of fun (as in: learning the fight)" queuing.

Also the more I read in this thread, the more I wonder - does anyone actually farm in the RF? Isn't the point of farming to do the content over and over, which is much more suited to the party finder? Are we even arguing about things that actually happen (on either side of the debate)?

[bswpayton]

What the OP actually wants its the means to queue for this content while selecting a "everyone I'm queueing with has cleared this"-option. This content being out for months doesnt magically make it so easy that it can be pugged with newbies if you want to farm it.

But have you farmers not have yals time, I mean seriously you have had months on up to a year to farm to your hearts desire to do content with no bonuses. The option to leave new players or first timers out for months on in , because we both know that in two months no sync runs will happen on this content. So is it really to much to ask , for those whom are still tryin to clear content to have better access to it after all this time. This seems very one sided here things have gone the way of the rf for the whole time frame of its existence, now here it is right before the expansion when they are nerfing alex, uncapping the 24mans.

They are doing everything to make things easier for everyone, but yet people what the exclusiveness of the raid finder to continue. Because the thing about it is that those whom want their birds will get them regardless in two months, but how much harder will it be for someone to get a sync clear of a run once it goes unsync will it be. Lets be real here bird farms will continue on much more frequently than any sync runs of unsyncable content. So while I know that people can slow down progress I know from my own personal experience every primal I ever cleared was in df before I started using pf, so I dont think well I know not all of them are just wipe fest, so at this point the time is just simply up for what the op wants.

[Vidu]

But have you farmers not have yals time, I mean seriously you have had months on up to a year to farm to your hearts desire to do content with no bonuses.

Intresting - you're saying right now "Oh, to bad you wanted to farm this content, you're to late for that now!"
For the sake of people who might have been to late to get there first clears when everyone was doing/learning the content...?

I might have had real life reasons not to farm the content when it first came out (personally, with Zurvan I actually had), just as much as a person could have had personal reasons not to join learning parties when the content first came out. So right now, the system is telling the farmer "yep, you're to late to the party now", while the new person gets a VIP-ticket...

Also the more I read in this thread, the more I wonder - does anyone actually farm in the RF? Isn't the point of farming to do the content over and over, which is much more suited to the party finder? Are we even arguing about things that actually happen (on either side of the debate)?

I believe I have answered this already, but since we're all writing novels here, I'll repeat it: Yes, it actually happend. Sophia was the godess (pun intended) of this feature when they released that fight - specially because the fight required the standard set-up with two tanks (main reason it didnt worked aswell for Zurvan was that you only need one tank there, so there was the huge benefit of getting a 5th dps in when doing it with a full party). Me and some friends used that feature to get some fast clears in - and seeing how we had queuetimes below 5 minutes, I reckon a lot of other people did the same. While the point of farming is to do the content over and over again it only requires you to do that with people who know what they're doing - not necessarly with the same group. So, when farming only requires you to have 7 other people there who know what they're doing - why not have those 7 people randomly come from DF? (Yes, yes, we can argue that having the kill doesnt mean you know the fight - but it certainly increases the chance to get paired up with people who know the fight when everyone has the clear - during the farmruns my friend and I did in Sophia, using the RF, we saw like 4 wipes and one disband or so? Not remotly close to what I dealt with in Garuda EX when I tried to farm that in DF back in the old days...)
Queueing up for content like that is a lot more flexible than setting up a PF or joining a group.
Ask yourself why you dont make a PF-group everytime you want to do expert.