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  1. #61
    Player
    aleph_null's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    690
    Character
    Aleph Alpha
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Feidam View Post
    Exactly.nice simple easy fast way to do "X". Unless you have not cleared. Then good luck getting anything to pop. That's the point. It should be equal time for any person utilizing the raid finder.

    Extreme primals are all I really do now days personally. So it really doesn't matter much to my play time. I however am not blind to others plight trying to do said content because they didn't play or were not able to the content the first week it was launched.
    I've explained in a previous post, practice and farm queues won't work together for some fights. Maybe you can carry some newbies through sophia or zurvan, but I really doubt it's even possible to clear something like thordan, a6s, a7s, a11s, a12s in 90 minutes while teaching/carrying a newbie who's new to the fight, even when they're at/above the ilv requirements. I think at least for current contents the clear and practice queues should be separated. If you combine those queues together some contents will quite literally be impossible to clear via DF/RF, which isn't exactly better than having two separate, slower queues which may take very long to pop.

    Back in 3.1 it took me over a month to clear thordan ex, so it's not like I don't understand how it feels to be left behind. I sometimes help people in practice or aim to clear parties as well, either premade groups with fc/ls friends or randomly joining PF, but when I do, I keep in mind that there's a pretty good chance I won't clear the fight. When I want to farm for gear/birds/whatever of course I wouldn't want to be grouped with people who are still practicing early phases, or aren't consistent enough to execute the mechanics to clear. It's not a matter of clearing slower, it's a matter of actually clearing vs not. If there's only a single RF queue for those harder fights it'll be pretty much useless since you won't clear it there. It'll be an unofficial "first phase practice queue" so people who want to farm won't use it anyway. Heck, even with a completed queue some of the harder fights were still a challenge to clear, where groups disband after 2-3 pulls and you just requeue. There are contents where you can teach and carry newbies, and there are contents where you can't.
    (8)

  2. #62
    Player
    KDSilver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    1,533
    Character
    Shiru Elysia
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 100
    This is problem with the community itself.
    People who think that, those who have already cleared thing should dedicate all their time and energy to be nice to them and teach them everything while those same people already learned a long time ago by themselves.

    You can't expect everyone to have the time and will to do that and should consider that, you'll have to meet people that are sharing the same goal as you.

    There are times when you can help if you feel you want it, there's a time when you also do things for yourself and expect the others to understand that they don't have the same experience as you so they can't join...
    And there is nothing toxic ou discriminating in that.

    We all have differents experiences, goals and expectation.

    That's why pf exists on which you can put a description to let player know what you exactly want to do in the duty.
    The day things will get better is the day when people will actually respect what is asked in the description.
    (3)

  3. #63
    Player
    Jijifli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,384
    Character
    Jijifli Kokofli
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 55
    Quote Originally Posted by alimdia View Post
    Primal:




    Aether




    We all can open PF any time and see whether you're telling the truth or not, note right not it's not even NA prime, these parties will double in a matter of an hour or two. Another thing many of you don't notice is in those clear parties like half the team usually has the clear already, there are many people who join clear or learning parties out of boredom.

    If your parties aren't filling either A) there's another up and you didn't notice, or B) you're doing it during an odd hour in your data center.

    Seriously, use PF, you aren't gonna learn anything through DF if every time you queue you're back to square one.
    I literally opened it up today and saw it either say "Farm, no new scrubs" or "WT"

    Also, it has to do with how people learn too. Note that most say, "Please know the fight," but I can't learn from YouTube. As for why my party making attempts failed, I didn't know mid day on a weekend was a poor time. I'm also looking at some of the Ilvl requirements listed, which are above the normal amount ways (260 request for 250 content. 250 request for 235 content.) So some already don't like PF's Item level request.

    Lastly, clear doesn't mean learning. You marked some clears, which are not learning. I was denied from clears for not doing the fight before, because by clear, they meant they just wanted to kill it once, not have people learn the fight.
    (3)

  4. #64
    Player Dualgunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,942
    Character
    Lilila Lila
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Machinist Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Jijifli View Post
    -snip-
    Send screenshots? Preferably outlined just like she did, catches the eye better.

    Also of those 10 highlighted results, only 2 have 'know the fight' and a third only partially meeting that criteria with a "Please know up to x phase" in their immediate description. So 20, 30% of that sample size is not "most". "Some" is a much better descriptor.

    EDIT: ABOUT PF iLV:

    I see NONE 5 times out of that sample size of ten. So 50% defy you.
    I see 260, 260, and 255 for Zurvex. Not outlandish, really.
    220 for Nidex, again not outlandish. I'm not online so I can't say but I think that's min iLv or close to it.
    I see 250 for Sophex. Maybe a bit high but Sophex gives 255 weapons so again, not outlandish. Can be done with weaker equips.

    So of those ten, the closest I'd give you is between one and three-because 260 is high for the Zurv and 250 is high for Sophie. But the rewards for those fights (265 and 255 weapons) are still above those requirements, so it's not freakishly overdoing it.
    --END EDIT

    Lastly yes, clear parties are not learning parties and I'm glad you differentiate between the two. However a clear party is related in that it usually means learning later stages of the fight, and are meant also for people who don't have clears, but have been in so many learning parties their brains are spilling out of their ears and they just want that one clear at last.
    (1)
    Last edited by Dualgunner; 04-19-2017 at 08:55 AM.

  5. #65
    Player
    Vidu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    3,993
    Character
    Vidu Moriquendi
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Feidam View Post
    And for all the people posting what about my time!? It is important! I just want you step back and realize everyone's time is important.
    Yes, everyones time is important. I am fully aware of that and I never said anything else. Thats is excatly why I want this feature - because without it, the time of a person who has no idea about the fight is worth more than the time of a person who knows the fight very well and wants to farm it. I'd like to remind you that this is a game that we're all playing for some sort of entertainment in our more or less limited freetime. If I want to farm an EX-primal and I have one hour of freetime before my real life duties are calling me again, I can get 5-6 clear, clean kills of Sophia into that timeframe. That means: When I do the fight with people who know what they're doing. Using the RF back then allowed me to do excatly that - the DF doesnt. In my one hour of freetime I might not even get close to a kill with people who dont know what they're doing.

    Saying you're okay with people making farm parties (and excluding people from them, obviously) is okay, but people asking for the game to auto-match them with farm-like-parties is not okay? We got all those tools - DF aswell as PF - to make it easier to find groups to do the content we want to do. RF just allows you to do the content a certain way, in a sense and to put that filter there.
    No one here plays this game because they're employeed as social worker - I think its safe to assume that everyone plays for their enjoyment, why not give us the tools to make sure we can create the best experience possible for us?

    I am all for helping people - infact I just spend 90 minutes with a bunch of people, to get them their Sophia EX clear. 6 people got their kills, one of them only spoke german (and therefore didnt understood the guide they had looked at), for most of them it was the first time. Do I regret that I spend those 90 minutes with them? Hell no, it was a lot of fun! Do I feel that I wasted my time? Nope, I knew what I was getting myself into and I wanted to help, all cool. I also had the time, obviously-

    But! Thats not always the case. So... why shouldnt I use the DF to get what I want - fast, quick kills - but someone, who just wants to see the fight and wipe a bit in phase one, can?
    (11)

  6. #66
    Player
    Ririta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    444
    Character
    Ririta Rita
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    And then people wonder why Yoshida doesn't wants to add more hardcore content.
    (4)

  7. #67
    Player
    Misutoraru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    947
    Character
    Misutoraru Valkyrie
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Talraen View Post
    Does anyone actually do this? I don't use the raid finder, but all the anecdotal evidence I've seen says no.

    Also it's kind of alarming how casually people in this thread dismiss the unwashed masses. God forbid we should have to teach someone. Surely the party finder is a separate but equal method for those poor souls.
    sadly, 99% of time you will never able to queue a full party for "Not yet clear"
    i try it few times and never able to queue anything
    while i start my own practice group with PF I can usually get a full party less than 30min
    (1)

  8. #68
    Player
    Neophyte's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    940
    Character
    Mim Silmaril
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Talraen View Post
    Literally the function of that checkbox is to make it so certain people won't be able to join your party. That's the definition of exclusion.
    If you insist on 'no bonus' in a farm group and the message pops up, the party gets disbanded or if you can figure the person out, kick/blacklist.
    That is how it always was and now it'll be just the same.

    Same if you insist on a specific class and people change it and won't change back or if you insist on a specific ilvl and the person cheats with wrong right side gear.


    Actually, it should, for two reasons. First, people without clears are in the majority, and when you're trying to keep subscriptions, the majority is almost always the most important consideration. Second, encouraging a system of haves and have-nots leads to people being disillusioned and quitting the game. Also a money issue. It's not good business to divide your user base. Indeed, I imagine that's why raids get removed from the raid finder in the first place.
    Then they should open up a practice or kill party on their own or just join one?
    It's not hard to find people, me and my fc mates 'only' join kill groups (wouldn't join a farm with all those carried people out there D: ).

    People exclude anyway. If I open up a private party only enabeling friends with pw to join isn't that 'excluding', too?
    Is insisting on a melee if you ended up with 3 ranged already not excluding?

    My group, my rules. Proof: I can kick people out of it without giving a reason.


    Why not get rid of party finder at all? Giving people control about who is able to join or stay in their group only leads to exclusion.
    (1)
    Last edited by Neophyte; 04-19-2017 at 02:35 PM.

  9. #69
    Player
    Dzian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,837
    Character
    Scarlett Dzian
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 76
    Quote Originally Posted by Rongway View Post
    Raid finder is an unnecessary addition, given that we have a richly featured Party Finder. Raid Finder's primary feature, the ability to exclude people who have not cleared content, is not enough to warrant an entirely separate interface for it.

    We should just abolish the raid finder altogether, and add a simple indicator to the Duty Finder window that shows that someone in the party hasn't cleared the content.

    With this in place, people who wanted to run with no preference could still DF it with randoms, while people who want to farm can form a full party via Party Finder, then easily see, before queuing, if all party members meet the expectation of having previously cleared.
    Raid finder is necessary it was added for the specific purpose of increasing success rates. before raid finder was added it was impossible to get clears in thordan / seph or nidhogg ex. success rates were incredibly low. which is a big part of why the raid finder was added.

    after the raid finder was added success clears of content went up a lot. many people farmed a lot of primal stuff from Sophia in raid finder... I even got my first zurvan clear in raid finder and nidhog as I said earlier.
    I know quite a few people that cleared the whole of creator savage using raid finder cos they had no time for statics or anything was just queue and go...

    if you aboilish the raid finder and add that indicator to the duty finder that says someone in your party hasn't cleared this. are you going to give people the option to withdraw from that duty without penalty if that indicator comes up.. maybe they joined to farm a couple of quick wins or are you going to basically hold them to ransom and force them to help you learn or eat a 30 minute penalty... (what happened to there time being as important as yours?)


    the raid finder does not exclude anyone from content. it's addition was designed to make content more accessible than ever. (no time for a static to learn that fight hit raid finder and go) cleared that fight but no time to commit to a static to farm it. (hit raid finder and go)

    it was designed to help players find parties that matched there abilities... if practice parties take longer to fill than farm parties that doesn't mean the farmers should have to help you out.

    the people using party finder should be the people learning.. then you can create or join parties more fitting to your progress. have you seen broken seal or maybe even enrage.. then join a p3 learning / clear party..

    first time join a p1 learning..

    if you've seen enrage and looking to clear and then duty finder keeps putting you with people who can't even survive the first soar time and time again I'd bet you'd soon be getting just as frustrated as farmers get when a bonus tries to sneak in. because all you wanna do is finally get a win but every group you get can't even get close to your goal. how long does it take for your time to feel wasted?
    (3)
    Last edited by Dzian; 04-19-2017 at 04:19 PM.

  10. #70
    Player
    RosaLunaCelestia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,581
    Character
    Luna Luorc'a
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    Raid finder was a desert lol No one used it . Always over 30 min waiting and no one xD
    (1)

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