Location of the state of Dalmasca?

[Singularity]

So I got the lore book last week, and while reading it I noticed what seems to be an inconsistency.

The geography section describes a state called Dalmasca alongside Doma in the passage about Othard. Not much is mentioned other than that it is currently annexed by the Garlean empire much as Doma is.

The section on Garlean history on the other hand seems to place it in the mountain range that divides north and south Ilsabard - stating that the Garleans conquered it by "raining fire from airships" (quote may be inexact, don't have the book with me at the moment). This event is very clearly placed in the history such that it occurs before the Garleans expand their ambitions into Othard.

So what exactly is going on here? Is it just a misinterpretation on my part and the two are in fact the same place (and if so, where)? Are there two states called Dalmasca? Is one a successor of the other? Any insight would be appreciated.

[Anonymoose]

Personally, I've been on stand-by waiting for this one to get cleared up, because it's not just the lore book that's confusing people.

In 2.00 content, Gaius lands at Castrum Occidens and Nero kills the spy "Hummingway". During this encounter, two engineers state their homelands: "Othard, milord!" / "Ala Mhigo, milord!" In other languages, rather than Othard, he says Dalmasca.

Asked about this, Koji Fox said, "And guess where that is!", implying that Dalasca is indeed intended to be in Othard.

Meanwhile, the flavor text for the mount of Livia sas Junius says that she earned the name Witch of Dalmasca during the "invasion and subjugation" northern Ilsabard. That took place in 1517, 60 years ago. That would make Livia a little old for her and Daddy Baelsar to have been in the type of inappropriate relationship they seem to have been in, right?

And think of how many years that would place between her and Lucia; Livia would be over 70 while Lucia was 28. That's extremely rare, though I suppose not biologically impossible. And the lore book does say Livia was the elder sister.

Except, oops, the lore book claims Livia was 26.

Drest (the hermit in La Noscea) is also a Garlean deserter, and talks of his home (Dalmasca) as if he knew it before the Garleans invaded and conscripted him, as if he did not grow up knowing only Imperial rule, if Ala Mhigo is any indication.

And yet the lore book has the same problem. Timeline says 1517 for Dalmasca. Basic history says 1517 for Dalmasca. Big bold headline for Othard says Dalmasca and Doma were subjugated in the Eastern theatre.

As far as I can tell, the lore "got more specific" between 2.00 and now, and caused certain pieces of old phrasing to fall out of harmony with the newer development.

Both northern Ilsabard and eastern Othard are said to be home to vast mountain ranges that restrict land routes. The lore book implies that Dalmasca was over these mountain ranges to the east, but says explicitly that it is in Ilsabard's "central mountains", a seeming direct contradiction.

It's possible that Dalmasca is actually both - situated between two mountain ranges on land that bridges far-eastern central Ilsabard and far-western Othard, which is still under cloud cover in the Stormblood map.

It might also be possible to clean up the timeline if Garlemald conquered this area in 1517, but it never entirely accepted Imperial rule. The Dalmascan resistance could have given birth to Drest, who was conscripted into an army he didn't consider to represent his "home", and be the very insurgency that was crushed by Livia to give her the nickname.

But I can't speak for the dev. team.

Something feels amiss, though.

[Belhi]

I really hope the region its in is the Ivalice we visit and we aren't actually going to be going to the FF12 Ivalice. I think I would find that rather jarring. Plus going to aid another region that had fallen to the Empire would make sense in context of the expansion. It doesn't strickly say it is the WoL returning to Ivalice. Maybe we are going back with someone from their originally.

Hopefully....

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

It is indeed an awkward passage; however, given that two other passages - in the 6th Astral Era timeline and the Garlemald section - all but outright state Dalmasca to be in Ilsabard, that's the direction I personally lean in. In that light, I kinda take the earlier passage (in Geography) to be conflating the two locations based on accessibility by airship, not geographic location.

In 2.00 content, Gaius lands at Castrum Occidens and Nero kills the spy "Hummingway". During this encounter, two engineers state their homelands: "Othard, milord!" / "Ala Mhigo, milord!" In other languages, rather than Othard, he says Dalmasca.

Asked about this, Koji Fox said, "And guess where that is!", implying that Dalasca is indeed intended to be in Othard.

I always hate to contradict Master Moose, but the line (at least, according to that interview) actually has the soldier say Rabanastre, not Dalmasca; similarly, Koji says "Guess where Rabanastre iiiis!" And indeed, the Lore Book unambiguously places Rabanastre in Othard. The interview does seem to imply that Dalmasca is also located in Othard, but Koji could be mentioning it as another FFXII location that exists on Hydaelyn, rather than as another Othard nature; he doesn't outright say it's on Othard, after all, and given that multiple (well, two) Encyclopedia passages seem to place it on Ilsabard, that seems to me the best interpretation.

I do like the idea that it's location in a region that's sort of both/neither, like on the land bridge or something. That's an angle I hadn't really thought of!

[Vexander]

Something to keep in mind about the Lore Book is that it's an in-universe book. It was written from the perspective of a Scholar who lives in Eorzea, and therefor, while the words are canon, they are not fact. The Scholar could've gotten the dates wrong and such, as well as the exact location of places he'd never been to.

[Anonymoose]

I always hate to contradict Master Moose, but the line (at least, according to that interview) actually has the soldier say Rabanastre, not Dalmasca

There are presently zero references to Rabanastre in the game (that I can find). I was pretty sure I'd just made a mistake during the interview, saying that I could recall seeing both name-dropped when in fact only one was. However, after the interview was posted, I've had several people say to me that they remembered Rabanastre being name-dropped long ago, as well ... yet we could never find it.

Either several of us were mistaken (and Koji didn't catch it during the interview) or the references to Rabanastre were later purged and replaced with Dalmasca in a ninja-edit. Text bug fixes are almost always ninja-edits.

(And I encourage you to contradict me any time you're confident that I'm wrong. I will fight hoof and antler for the truth. For my ego? Meh.)

[Enkidoh]

Only my theory of course but the more I think of it the more I'm liable to regard the whole 'Rabanastre/Dalmasca' thing as something the writing team did consider briefly only to scrap at the last second and have increasingly handwaved it's existence in the game away - as Moose noted there are absolutely no references to Rabanastre in the English-language client, and even Dalamasca I cannot remember any references existing either. Given the noted dubious accuracy sadly of the lorebook I'm liable to regard both as no longer really canon to the story - besides, SE could easily handwave that as well as "a citystate that once existed but was wiped out by the Garleans/Allag/<insert antagonistic force's name of choice here>" anyway.

Also, it's established fact that the development team already stated long ago that Ivalice and Hydaelyn are not connected in any way, so any such appearance of those place names is just that, place names on a map with no direct connection to their FFXII namesakes (just like Crystal Tower is not literally FFIII's final dungeon or Costa del Sol is not the cheesy resort town on the Western Continent peddling to Shinra executives or the Gold Saucer is not a casino built on the ruins of old Corel by an eccentric billionaire wrestler.. wait a minute. But I digress.

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

The only thing that makes me think that one or both are likely to still be real, relevant places is this new raid. Given that both are references to the same thing as our upcoming 24-man, and that we're going to be going to the general place in the world where at least one of them is, I'd be very surprised indeed if we didn't hear about them again in at least an offhand sort of way.

[Anonymoose]

even Dalamasca I cannot remember any references existing either

Putting aside for a moment whether Rabanastre was scrubbed from the game or a just a group hallucination; Dalmasca is there ... just not in English.
For some reason the English client seems really skittish about mentioning it directly. But...

• At Castrum Occidens, the enginner next to Hummingway has Dalmasca in his name-tag (JP / DE)
• This engineer refers to himself as being from Dalmasca (JP / DE / FR)
• Drest names Dalmasca as his homeland. (JP / DE / FR)
• Yda refers to Livia as the Witch of Dalmasca during the infiltration of Castrum Centri (JP / DE)
• Lucia confirms that her sister was the Witch of Dalmasca when she reveals her identity in 3.00 (JP / DE)
• Livia's mount flavor refers to the city by name (JP / DE)

The lore book caught us up ... discrepancies included.

[Theodric]

FFXII is my favourite title in the franchise, so I'm all for references to it in-game. Given that FFXII will be polished further and released again as a remastered version shortly after Stormblood is upon us I'm fairly confident that we will be seeing quite a lot of references and tie ins during 4.0. Either right away or in future patches. 4.1, for instance, is very likely to the 'Ivalice' raid, which may take place in a portion of Othard that has Dalmasca and/or Rabanastre in it. Or they may be in-game when 4.0 swings around. Another possibility is we only go to part of Othard during 4.0 and another portion is added in 5.0...