How important are macros?

[HyoMinPark]

I'm a new player and I'm finding macros very helpful to reduce the number of buttons I have to manage.

I make macros that do individual on-GCD skills and add all my "use it whenever it's up" off-GCD stuff to the same buttons. Instead of wait commands I just put in the raw list of skills and tap the key repeatedly. Doesn't slow me down because I put the on-GCD.....

I'm going to extend some advice to you: I would really recommend moving away from this practice of macroing a ton of skills just to save button space. Macros do not function the same way as manually pressing the individual skills, and while I don't know much about DRG, I know that they're recommended to have a 2.2 (?) second GCD and also to double weave oGCDs in their rotation. Macros prevent you from doing this because you cannot queue actions in half-second values. Losing that faster GCD means losing more DPS, and people are going to expect you to have good DPS as a DRG.

There is a lot of skill bloat in this game, but most jobs you can still manage to get them on 2 full crossbars (if you play with crossbar/controller), and 2-3 regular 12-slot Hotbars. Please move away from the practice of macroing full rotations. Because it will make you too reliant on them, and they are not something you should rely on for rotations.

[seekified]

I'm a new player and I'm finding macros very helpful to reduce the number of buttons I have to manage. (...)

Example from DRG:
/macroicon "Chaos Thrust"
/ac "Blood For Blood"
/ac "Chaos Thrust"
/ac "Dragonfire Dive"
/ac "Haymaker"
/ac "Mercy Stroke" (Might not want to macro this if you need the finishing blow for healing when solo...)

First, macros don't work the way it seems you think they do. Second, that's a severely underperforming rotation for DRGs even if you'd do it without the macro. Third, why would you think it's fun to just spam a handful of buttons over and over instead of actually playing the game as intended?

[VKhaun]

Macros do not function the same way as manually pressing the individual skills, and while I don't know much about DRG, I know that they're recommended to have a 2.2 (?) second GCD and also to double weave oGCDs in their rotation. Macros prevent you from doing this because you cannot queue actions in half-second values.

What you're describing are the limitations of the /wait command. It rounds up to the next second. A lot of guides say to include "/wait 0.5" between skills but that actually causes the game to wait a full second. This does not apply to the example I posted. If you make a macro without wait commands and spam that button/key it behaves exactly as pressing the regular buttons separately.

I hope this doesn't seem arrogant coming from a new player but this seems to be a large misconception within the community. Somehow the whole message about /wait gets squished down to "macros are bad m'kay?" and no one remembers why.

[VKhaun]

First, macros don't work the way it seems you think they do.

You'll have to elaborate. I've been messing around with macros in PotD literally for days on vacation off work. I started with some misconceptions that some experienced players helped me with, but I've got a good handle on it now and everything performs as I expect as far as skill order goes.

Complex targeting lists are still giving me trouble though. Like trying to avoid healing myself by telling it to heal my TT, then try to heal my T, then try to heal my FT will sometimes result in me... healing myself repeatedly even though I have a FT set who has a target that is not me... T_T... So I'm trying to stay humble.

Second, that's a severely underperforming rotation for DRGs even if you'd do it without the macro.

That macro is not a rotation. It's just the button for Chaos Thrust.

[Ehr]

snip

When the /wait command is not used the game tries to execute the actions all at once. So when you can't execute an action because of an animation lock it just skips that action in the macro. That's how using T, TT, and FT works, the macro will execute the first valid action (the actions past that won't work because you'll be in the middle of the animation/cast for another action). Also, macros do not queue, so when you press a macro and have one running, it cancels the current one and starts the new one. Though I guess this is more general information on how macros work, however I still think they are not a good thing and remove your ability to be versatile in different situations.

[HyoMinPark]

I hope this doesn't seem arrogant coming from a new player but this seems to be a large misconception within the community. Somehow the whole message about /wait gets squished down to "macros are bad m'kay?" and no one remembers why.

There's a thread here somewhere that pops up occasionally about macroing an entire monk rotation, and how it leads to a significant DPS loss. That's why macros are inefficient as means of mapping an entire rotation. I've seen it revived a couple times in the last month or so. I'd suggest reading it to see what others say.

Macros break sometimes, or don't go off properly. If your macro were to break after your Impulse Drive, you would be unable to use Disembowel and Chaos Thrust. Significant DPS loss not only for you, but for those who benefit from the piercing resistance down debuff Disembowel gives.

Sometimes in fights, a situation may change were you need to reapply your DoTs after a boss went invincible, and they fell off before you could refresh them. Queuing them in the middle of a macro not only delays the reapplication of the DoT unnecessarily so, but also results in a net DPS loss for you. For BRDs, we get a lot of damage from our DoTs. I have looked at my "crystal ball" and seen that my DoTs usually make up 30% or more of my total damage dealt. Not to mention crit DoT ticks prompt the River of Blood trait, causing me to lose out on Bloodletter/Rain of Death procs if I have to wait several GCDs to apply them because they're in a macro. Letting them fall off is a DPS loss. Queuing them in the middle of a macro with 10 other skills is a DPS loss.

I'm bringing up this next point because you did mention something about macroing for BRD, which is my main job. BRDs do not have a strict rotation in terms of most melee, where it's Heavy Thrust > Impulse Drive > Disembowl > Chaos Thrust, etc.. BRDs are more of a priority based rotation style that involves upkeep of your DoTs (including Iron Jaws refresh every 17 seconds), upkeep of the Straight Shot buff, using as many Bloodletter/Rain of Death procs as possible, using your Straighter Shot price (and in a way that doesn't waste a GCD by weaving them between oGCD skills), aligning the proper buffs (IR + RS, HE + B4B + Barrage + EA), keeping all your oGCD skills on cooldown (Blunt Arrow, Empyreal Arrow, Sidewinder, Repeling Shot, etc.), and filling in the gaps with Heavy Shot spam. Let me just use macroing Bloodletter in the middle of a macro that also applies Straight Shot, your DoTs, and weaves in a Sidewinder between some Heavy Shots. If Bloodletter were to proc anywhere in the middle of that, you would need to use it ASAP, otherwise it's a DPS loss (though sometimes Bloodletter gets carried away and procs three times in a row before you even get a chance to use one). Point being, you need those procs, and you won't be able to see them or use them efficiently in a macro.

I also macro my Flaming Arrow to make placing it easier, because it's just too much time on a controller and that just means I'm doing less DPS with my other skills. I can say that several times if I am going too fast, the macro will not queue into my rotation (because they do not queue in the same way non-macroed skills do), thereby making me have to wait longer to apply it. I align my Flaming Arrow with Internal Release, Raging Strikes, and Sidewinder because they all have similar cooldown timers. I don't like that being thrown off because the macro just didn't feel like cooperating at that particular moment.

Plus, you have your songs. What if the healer dies, is raised, but they're out of mana and need that MP song, and you have to interrupt one of your macros to sing it for them? Now you have to start that macro all over again, which is just a waste of TP and damage (example: clipping DoTs too early and not benefiting from the full potency). You need to be able to adapt to the situation (provide songs when needed) while also sinultaneously managing your damage and rotation with as little interrupt as possible. Weaving in Mage's or Army's is just one single GCD, and then you can go right back to what you were doing.

I know you main DRG, but I main BRD, and while the jobs are different in terms of play, they are on-par when it comes to DPS parses (with players that are equally geared and skilled). BRD has some of the highest potential for high DPS parses, and that relies on knowing the job well, and squeezing out every ounce of attack power you can. Something that you cannot get with macros.

I'm not sure how interested you are in Savage content or EX primals, but I can guarantee you statics will not accept a player who maps rotations with macros. Too much of a DPS loss, and this game is all about those big DPS parses now. I'm in no way trying to sound arrogant myself; just giving you examples on why macros are not optimal for full-blown rotations.

[Rongway]

Instead of wait commands I just put in the raw list of skills and tap the key repeatedly. Doesn't slow me down

What you're describing are the limitations of the /wait command. It rounds up to the next second.

If you make a macro without wait commands and spam that button/key it behaves exactly as pressing the regular buttons separately.

Somehow the whole message about /wait gets squished down to "macros are bad m'kay?" and no one remembers why.

It slows you down. It definitely slows you down, and this has nothing to do with the limitations of integer waits (because integer waits are obviously a drop in efficiency, so we don't need to argue about them).

Expect to lose at least 0.2 seconds per macro execution, which can easily cost you 2~3 GCDs each minute if you macro enough abilities. In an eight minute fight, that's 16~24 GCDs lost (that's almost a whole minute's worth of actions)!



Besides that, your macro is misordered. What you wrote will do the following:

1. Use Blood for Blood on cooldown.
2. Use Chaos Thrust if distance <= 3 and TP >= 60
3. Use Dragonfire Dive if distance > 3 or TP < 60 or oGCD
4. Use Haymaker if (recently dodged or TP < 60) and TP >= 40
5. Use Mercy Stroke if not recently dodged or TP < 40

Dragonfire Dive will execute as a gap closer or an oGCD. If you press this when weaponskills are okay, Chaos Thrust has priority, which means it'll break your combo if press the button at the wrong time. When misusing macros for combat actions, you typically should put the GCD ability at the bottom.

You'll almost never execute Haymaker or Mercy Stroke. You can improve this drastically by just never using Haymaker, because its potency is far below the mean potency per GCD of the DRG rotation. Mercy Stroke is also so restrictive that it should be placed higher up or the stars will never align such that it executes.

[VKhaun]

It slows you down. It definitely slows you down, and this has nothing to do with the limitations of integer waits (because integer waits are obviously a drop in efficiency, so we don't need to argue about them)

Thanks. That picture makes sense.

At first I was thinking the last pic showed a delay between pressing buttons and you should just press it faster, but I tested before replying and as I add more and more junk to the same button the game seems to require some amount of time per line to check the list. Simply spamming it won't force them to fire off ASAP.

It doesn't get nearly as bad as you describe though. Once I've got everything on cooldown there's not enough there to constantly be slowing me down. I get into a groove of 1on-1off as things come off cooldown at different times and the macros flow with the global cooldown again. Definitely wrecking my opening vs bosses though. I will need to make changes.

[AmeliaVerves]

I will need to make changes.

Learn your rotations, your skills and throw away those macros. No more changes needed than this.

[seekified]

Once I've got everything on cooldown there's not enough there to constantly be slowing me down.

When using macros, the game doesn't actually start even registering your button presses until the previous skill's GCD is finished, so in all situations you're losing a split second per skill simply because the next skill isn't being "pre-loaded" in the skill queue. That's just how it is, and like Rongway says, that split second per skill builds up very fast over time to become quite significant.

Even if you put every skill of a completely perfect DRG rotation in entirely separate macro buttons (just one skill per macro), the very fact that they'd be macros instead of regular weaponskills would mean that maintaining that rotation would quickly become impossible because you're constantly falling behind on every single button press. That alone should be reason enough not to do this at all - the fact that macros with multiple skills in them are unreliable and unpredictable only compounds the issue further.