PLD synergy issues

[ADVSS]

hates not really the issue i dont think, i think its poor easy aoe damage like the other 2, i think it will get addressed in 4.0 honestly. The tank synergy is actually a problem with all 3 of them(moreso drk/pld comps) hope they really address that one too. debates like beating a dead horse on the OF though

[Ultimatecalibur]

hates not really the issue i dont think, i think its poor easy aoe damage like the other 2, i think it will get addressed in 4.0 honestly.

Simply turning Flash into a 60 potency x10 enmity Holiest of Holy at some level would fix the AoE damage problem.

The tank synergy is actually a problem with all 3 of them(moreso drk/pld comps) hope they really address that one too. debates like beating a dead horse on the OF though

A fair amount of the Drk/Pld synergy problem is that both War/Pld and War/Drk have better synergy with the current only other source of the slash damage up debuff. Since Nin gets a damage boost from being in a party with a War, replacing either Drk or Pld in a Drk/Pld comp is a net gain. Hopefully Samurai can change that.

[Rongway]

Hopefully Samurai can change that.

It won't.

The samurai will be a pure solo DPS job combining attacks to deal massive damage. The overall battle system will consist of multiple far-eastern swordplay techniques from the realm of Hingashi, such as Iai.

Expect it not to have any notable party buffing capabilities.

[Ultimatecalibur]

It won't.

Expect it not to have any notable party buffing capabilities.

That says nothing about Samurai not applying a version of the Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge Slashing resist down debuff as part of its combo attacks.

Part of the reason Nin has better synergy with War/Pld and War/Drk than Drk/Pld is that Dancing Edge is not actually part of the Ninja's optimal dps rotation while Storm's eye is part of the Warrior's. Ninja's would rather use Aeolian Edge than Dancing Edge.

If the Sam naturally applies a slashing debuff with its optimal dps rotation (just like how the Dragoon always applies the piercing debuff with Disembowel due to always wanting to keep Chaos Thrust's DoT up) then War/Pld and War/Drk would not naturally be better than Pld/Drk.

[Venoshock]

That says nothing about Samurai not applying a version of the Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge Slashing resist down debuff as part of its combo attacks.

Part of the reason Nin has better synergy with War/Pld and War/Drk than Drk/Pld is that Dancing Edge is not actually part of the Ninja's optimal dps rotation while Storm's eye is part of the Warrior's. Ninja's would rather use Aeolian Edge than Dancing Edge.

If the Sam naturally applies a slashing debuff with its optimal dps rotation (just like how the Dragoon always applies the piercing debuff with Disembowel due to always wanting to keep Chaos Thrust's DoT up) then War/Pld and War/Drk would not naturally be better than Pld/Drk.

Every class that has a set rotation (as opposed to the priority system that summoner, bard and machinist follow) which has one of three purposes:

-DoT rotation; sometimes tied to your main damage or buff/debuff rotation; shadow fang, chaos thrust, goring blade etc. they're your strongest attacks if allowed full uptime. Not every class has a full rotation per sé, but as a stand alone attack that should be used as soon as it expires like; mutilate, scourge, fracture etc.

-main damage rotation; aeolian edge, full thrust, snap punch, butchers block, royal authority, soul eater etc. these do the most immediate damage and (apart from butchers) have no other side effect as opposed to DoTs being the most damaging with the catch being, they have to be up for the full duration.

-buff/debuff rotation; armour crush, dancing edge, dragon kick, disembowel, delirium, storms eye/path etc, these enhance other abilities and are to be upheld 100% but the trade off is that they are almost always your weakest rotation (dancing edge should be used instead of aeolian edge in situations where you cannot meet the positional requirement)

if SE was to follow this like they have with pretty much all classes so far then no, Samurai's slashing debuff ( if it even gets one, for all we know they could have a slashing buff for themselves instead of a slashing debuff on the enemy making the class more selfish like monk) will never be stronger than the main damage rotation. I hate to say this as a warrior main, but the problem is warrior. Warrior not only has highest personal dps but it also brings utility. It has evrything.

thats like having a monk with the highest personal dps + the ability to use shade walker, smoke screen, battle litany and trick attack. Warrior has it all. You wither take away storms eye from warrior and all tanks are equal. ninjas will be a bit upset but at least warrior isn't mandatory oooor you can give paladin at the very least it own version of storms eye and now paladin/dark knight compositions are more viable.


Edit- Now that i think about it, if SE realy cared about tank balancing, they'd change the way storms eye works by making it give warrior a personal slashing buff (or get rid of it all together and buff maim(which cannot stack with dancing edge and whatever slashing debuff samurai gets)) and giving samurai the slashing debuff of storms eye . Samurai and ninja will now have synergy with each other and the tanks.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Every class that has a set rotation (as opposed to the priority system that summoner, bard and machinist follow) which has one of three purposes:

-DoT rotation; sometimes tied to your main damage or buff/debuff rotation; shadow fang, chaos thrust, goring blade etc. they're your strongest attacks if allowed full uptime. Not every class has a full rotation per sé, but as a stand alone attack that should be used as soon as it expires like; mutilate, scourge, fracture etc.

-main damage rotation; aeolian edge, full thrust, snap punch, butchers block, royal authority, soul eater etc. these do the most immediate damage and (apart from butchers) have no other side effect as opposed to DoTs being the most damaging with the catch being, they have to be up for the full duration.

-buff/debuff rotation; armour crush, dancing edge, dragon kick, disembowel, delirium, storms eye/path etc, these enhance other abilities and are to be upheld 100% but the trade off is that they are almost always your weakest rotation (dancing edge should be used instead of aeolian edge in situations where you cannot meet the positional requirement)

Each class has a set of combos with the durations of various buffs, debuffs and dots creating a rotation of those combos.

Fast Blade -> Savage Blade -> Royal Authority is a combo.

Fast Blade -> Riot Blade -> Goring Blade -> Fast Blade -> Savage Blade -> Royal Authority -> Fast Blade -> Savage Blade -> Royal Authority (usually shortened to GB -> RA -> RA) is a rotation.

The Warriors combo rotation to keep up the Maim debuff while dealing the most damage is SE -> BB -> BB with Fellcleaves and Fracture replacing BB combos when optimal.

The only reason that Dancing Edge isn't in the optimal dps rotation is due to how Ninja has 3 combos (Dancing Edge 280+Slashing debuff, Armor Crush 260+Speed buff extension, and Aeolian Edge 340) off of one combo start. If they can hit the positional they should always be replacing Dancing Edge with Aeolian Edge if someone else is providing the Slashing debuff.

if SE was to follow this like they have with pretty much all classes so far then no, Samurai's slashing debuff ( if it even gets one, for all we know they could have a slashing buff for themselves instead of a slashing debuff on the enemy making the class more selfish like monk) will never be stronger than the main damage rotation.

No. The Samurai would only need to apply the debuff as the 1st or 2nd step of a 3 step DoT combo just like how Dragoon applies the Piercing debuff with Disembowel when reapplying the Chaos Thrust DoT.

Also the Monk isn't selfish. There just isn't another job that deals bludgeoning damage so Dragon Kick only helps Monks currently. When there are two Monks in a party currently one will drop Dragon Kick from it's rotation and start using Bootshine in its place.

thats like having a monk with the highest personal dps + the ability to use shade walker, smoke screen, battle litany and trick attack. Warrior has it all. You wither take away storms eye from warrior and all tanks are equal. ninjas will be a bit upset but at least warrior isn't mandatory oooor you can give paladin at the very least it own version of storms eye and now paladin/dark knight compositions are more viable.

As long as War+Pld/Drk+Sam+Nin is not better than Pld+Drk+Sam+Nin then the situation would be a bit more balanced.

[Jim_Berry]

That says nothing about Samurai not applying a version of the Storm's Eye/Dancing Edge Slashing resist down debuff as part of its combo attacks.

Part of the reason Nin has better synergy with War/Pld and War/Drk than Drk/Pld is that Dancing Edge is not actually part of the Ninja's optimal dps rotation while Storm's eye is part of the Warrior's. Ninja's would rather use Aeolian Edge than Dancing Edge.

If the Sam naturally applies a slashing debuff with its optimal dps rotation (just like how the Dragoon always applies the piercing debuff with Disembowel due to always wanting to keep Chaos Thrust's DoT up) then War/Pld and War/Drk would not naturally be better than Pld/Drk.

...unless you're a yolo NIN who will hit the boss with it from the front each time.

[ADVSS]

Simply turning Flash into a 60 potency x10 enmity Holiest of Holy at some level would fix the AoE damage problem.



A fair amount of the Drk/Pld synergy problem is that both War/Pld and War/Drk have better synergy with the current only other source of the slash damage up debuff. Since Nin gets a damage boost from being in a party with a War, replacing either Drk or Pld in a Drk/Pld comp is a net gain. Hopefully Samurai can change that.

I totally agree with this. If reprisal were more ot friendly, and perhaps the debuffs of roh/delerium/path or eye were somehow made to work well with either 2 on at once...for example roh doing a phys vuln down, or straight up damage down like path
dlerium/dragonkick in the same boat with the slashdebuff and ninja... maybe switcch around what the tanks debuff could work

[Sqwall]

This problem with the tanks is balance between them all and trying to make them all the "samey" for just being a tank. When I play MNK it plays TOTALLY different then say my SMN. And for good reason. Because that's a play style that works for each class. I have some grips with MNK and the constant spamming chakra (so annoying), but the dps mnk offers is great.

I don't understand why they really try to make all the tanks play the same just for the masses to "use them more" or "we would really like to see more PLD". That's a crap excuse. Just make the class viable in it's own right. Don't adjust it to make it more like WAR's dps level. Just offer something that makes the class unique. Shields need to offer more for the class honestly, it's our bread and butter.
I think it's time that PLD get's the spell reflect!
This would make the class unique and gives the PLD more of it's knight/mage ethos.
Food for thought. Thoughts?