Can the new deep dungeon please have enemies with more health

[TaleraRistain]

Then you would need to go in with a certain party makeup and that negates the entire idea of PotD.

[Sylvain]

I'm all for that.
I barely use more than 1-2-3 rotation since everything dies before I can do anything else.
Applying DoT is useless in most scenario as mobs will die before the dot can tick more than twice.
It pretty much makes everything more annoying, tank can merely tank as mobs die after 2-3sec.


Another thing that should be adressed is the amount or duration of some traps.

Some traps are way too potent, 30sec silence is way too long. Same goes for the frog or the mine who can kill anyone not above 90%. The worst part is, these aren't even fun or do they require any skill to manage. They're boring and only about "are you lucky / unlucky enough to put your foot at the wrong place at the wrong time".

I'd rather have trap replaced by miniboss. That'd make things more interesting and less random.
Same thing for the cursed chest, 10min really...

I'd rather wipe from my party failing at a small mechanic because we've been over confident or careless than wiping because "someone stepped on a mine when everyone was a 80% hp".


Also, I hope that any change they'll include in PotD2.0 will also affect the first one so both stay relevant.

[Sida]

Another thing that should be adressed is the amount or duration of some traps.

Some traps are way too potent, 30sec silence is way too long. Same goes for the frog or the mine who can kill anyone not above 90%. The worst part is, these aren't even fun or do they require any skill to manage. They're boring and only about "are you lucky / unlucky enough to put your foot at the wrong place at the wrong time".

I'd rather have trap replaced by miniboss. That'd make things more interesting and less random.
Same thing for the cursed chest, 10min really...

I'd rather wipe from my party failing at a small mechanic because we've been over confident or careless than wiping because "someone stepped on a mine when everyone was a 80% hp".

The traps can be avoided with a bit of caring where you walk, they're practically never on the edges of the rooms. The damage done by the mines can be mitigated by keeping distance to party mates so at most one takes the hit. Silence is not a problem if the healer doesn't play minesweeper. And the cursed chests, practically all runs I've been on there has been more than enough Purity pomances to go around, even to leave them to the chests since they are capped. That one pomance is specifically designed to remove that debuff. Not to forget the safety and sight pomances which both make the floor traps trivial matter. That working around something needs a bit of planning and strategy is not a flaw.

[Sylvain]

[QUOTE=Sida;4127930]snipeQUOTE]

The traps can be avoided with a bit of caring where you walk, they're practically never on the edges of the rooms.

This is very true and I do my best but at the same time, isn't it a bit... how do I put it, counter productive to add a feature to the game that incite player to walk around the edge of the room. Keeping everyone split etc etc, I'm obviously not talking about 100-200 when the whole point of this place is to be challenging.
I mean, some runs were just a pain. tons of cursed chest resulting in 3 people with curse, no healer, not talking about the random bombs, frog, silence that just made everyone stand around waiting for the summoner to "heal" us

[Sida]

The traps are there because there is methods to avoid them. Pomance of Safety removes them from the floor set, and pomance of sight reveals the map and the traps. With a bit of care in their use, one level set has usually for me, at most one or two levels that need to be run bare. The PoTD is created akin to old rpgs. One attack stat, one defends stat, and map offers as much challenges as solutions (in form of pomances). That people want to speedrun it ignoring most of this content is in their right, but if you forgo a key and then complain about locks...

[Lambdafish]

Another thing that should be adressed is the amount or duration of some traps.

I agree with Sida on this one. While I agree and will always support improvements to traps, especially with them sometimes being bland as you said, but the duration is fine. I actually love the mimic curse, my complaint about mimics prior is that they didn't feel like mimics, i.e. they are supposed to be a surprise that you really don't want to face, and you have to be wary opening every chest. The curse achieves this without outright killing you.

Having said that, my idea of a miniboss room would be set to never spawn traps in it for balancing reasons (healer steps on a frog trap while fighting boss? RIP party)

[Zojha]

The curse achieves this without outright killing you.

Honestly, I feel it doesn't.

The curse is completely inconsequential if you're a healer or have one in the party while it's crippling for every non-healer.

I don't find the traps in any way, shape or form engaging either. They're literally just a tool to make you pull things into the hallways before entering the rooms and thus slow you down, because the fact that you don't get any hints without a pom makes them nothing more than a random:"Eff you!" from the game. At the same time, most of them are utterly inconsequential when there are no mobs around and just have you wait it out. Not doing anything for 20-60 seconds to wait for regeneration/debuffs is "veeery" engaging design.

And whether you get the right pomanders to help you or not is random, too. "Pop a safety" is easy to say when the game gave you 7 purities and an intuition to work with. The argument is particularly dumb for trap pomanders because every floor has traps, but none are visible, so there's no way to tell whether you need that pom now or later. You can only pop it ASAP and it might or might not change anything because you might or might not have stepped on a trap on that floor in the first place. But popping it means you once again have nothing to fight them with until you get a new one.

In fact, I find the entire palace somewhat bland. I solo'd my way into 140 for the explorer title recently and even the so called challenge floors didn't do much more than increase the health and damage of the mobs. Even the bosses were just rehashed versions of the 1-40 bosses. That's "challenging" in the same way the HW overworld is more challenging than the ARR overworld. I literally died of boredom in 141 because I forgot to set music before entering, tabbed out and then had a patrol kill me while I set it up >_>

And after that experience, I can't say I'm too hot on mobs with more health in PotD either. If something doesn't melt with 4 people in the party (especially if those 4 are doing more than spamming 1-2-3), it's a royal pain to kill solo. It's not even threatening, it's just... tedious.

I suppose if the new deep dungeon isn't intended to be solo-able, that's a different story, as you don't need to consider solo play. But even then, I'd probably rather just make random boss-floors, rather than mini-bosses in regular floors. You can set it up akin to Midas 2, where you have 4 mini-bosses in a row, each boss dropping chests upon defeat. Or just a single one. You got more freedom with arena design that way and recycle some mechanics from the outside game.

[Okamimaru]

Personally id rather deep dungeons only give tomestones and loot and remove the exp all together (obviously increasing quality of loots)... or at least increase the level required to unlock the deep dungeons... I don't use potd for leveling I go for the possibility of fiscal gains (which bought me a apt, my fc house and furnished them both) these "speed runs" are annoying at best...

[Koit]

So I'm guessing the constant spawn of double patrolling mobs isn't a thing anymore?

[Sylvain]

Honestly, I feel it doesn't.
and snip.

Well you expressed my thought much better than I did.

However, this is also a quite "common" complain on the japanese forum too.
They globally complain about the same things
1- Mobs die too quick / it gets boring / not challenging (before 100 obviously)
2- Trap are just annoying
3- Mimic debuff range from laughable if you have a healer to game breaking if you don't.

I honestly wouldnt be surprise these 3 point to be reworked for palace of the dead 2.0
However, I'm pretty sure the 1-50, easy 51-100 hard will remain (or wathever the number of floors)