Please remove the weekly lock out of stuff

[Nixxe]

When did I insinuate gear is my only motivation?

I don't care what your motivation is, but the moment you insinuated that people would quit without additional gear to pursue, you insinuated that there were a significant number of players who play only for gear.

[MomomiMomi]

Not at all. I run on alt jobs for fun. By that point, I'll have cleared multiple times and simply feel like playing something else. The first several months is when I don't know the fight and have to manage with sub-optimal gear while competing with other players if I so choose. You can't replicate that experience when the odd numbered patch comes along and everyone picks up 270 gear. My first clear this tier was after 50+ hours of progression with a trash 255 weapon and only some 270 gear. The parse was ugly, we were all tired and frustrated but the nerd scream after made it all worthwhile. I wouldn't have that four months later when I can run Dun Scaith and Zurvan and be nearly full 270 before even reaching A12S. Afterwards, it's all about fun or maximizing my numbers.

Could they loosen the restrictions? Maybe. But the faster we optimize, the less likely people stay. Plenty of raiders unsub not long after the odd number patch drops because they've managed to gear up the jobs they care about. If they could do it week one, well, they'd unsub that much faster.

The fatigue system actively prevents me from playing. I literally cannot progress further no matter what I do whereas I can go into A12S with ilvl 250 crafted gear and still attempt it. I'll likely wipe multiple times, but at least I can to try. You're acting as though jobs are wholly unplayable if you aren't bis. Like I just said above, I cleared Savage with Sophia's weapon. You don't need the best gear just to clear content. If you want to rotate jobs, find a static whose members feel the same.

It isn't to say I like the weekly limitations. I just am not bothered by them one way or another, and can appreciate why they're in place.

This is all talking about yourself. Not everyone is at the same skill level. Some people need a leg up to clear content. This means that for some people, they aren't going to clear until they've finally geared up a job, possibly for weeks or months.

If they were to change job, they'd have to go back in ilvl and be far worse off for it. So it's simply not an option.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I don't care what your motivation is, but the moment you insinuated that people would quit without additional gear to pursue, you insinuated that there were a significant number of players who play only for gear.

A lot do. Or rather they care about the proverbial carrot. Take away mounts from the extreme primals and I guarantee each and every single one will be dead content within a month; two tops. How many people complain about running the same two dungeons? If they could hit 2000 Scripture in a week and gear up their main job. How often do you think they'll keep running those same dungeons? I barely run them even with the tomestone restrictions. It's simple human nature. Most people won't do something unless they are in some way benefited. At least not consistently. No matter how nice and helpful someone may be, eventually they'll get tired. And this doesn't even take into consideration crafted gear becomes completely worthless. Who's going to buy gear of the market board for thousands when they can spam Gubal Hard ten times? What about Alex Normal. Clear it once and just spam dungeons for Scriptures. Even if you bump everything up to 260, people will then farm whatever happens to be fastest.

None of this insinuates players only play for gear. It merely posits most won't run content 20-30-50 times for no reason other than "the dungeon looks pretty."

A perfect example are the 24 man raids. Crystal Tower was dead content until the Anima forced us all back into it. How many people would run Void Ark/Weeping/Dun Scaith if they could get everything they wanted in a couple weeks-- less if they're willing to farm?

This is all talking about yourself. Not everyone is at the same skill level. Some people need a leg up to clear content. This means that for some people, they aren't going to clear until they've finally geared up a job, possibly for weeks or months.

If they were to change job, they'd have to go back in ilvl and be far worse off for it. So it's simply not an option.

Very few people abruptly change jobs during progression, especially as statics often try to build around what you're previously selected. How often does say, a Dragoon decide, "I want to go Bard" three weeks into Savage? A good number of statics would flatout kick you if you insist because they'll now have three ranged and you already agreed to play a melee. Even were that scenario to occur, it's not like you cannot obtain enough gear to make it work. A9/A10 were easily pug-able this tier. If you wanted to swap jobs, get some accessories and maybe something on your left side. If that still isn't enough, sorry but... plan ahead next time. You don't go into Savage level content thinking "I'll play and gear whatever. Everyone'll be okay with that!"

What you're asking is to design a system around people being indecisive. You have four weeks before you can even buy something with pages; six if it's anything except accessories. If you can't commit to one job by that point, it isn't the game's fault. Regardless, this still brings us back to if you can farm everything from the onset, you take away any incentive to keep playing later on. And as I already mentioned above, unlocking tomestones destroys most alternative gearing methods.

I don't like this idea that everyone should be limited because a few can't contain themselves. Also, we have a ceiling, it's not like older MMORPGs where the gap gets so big that you can't ever catch up. So a hardcore gets all the gear they want in one week while normal players takes one month or two... what's the harm? Everyone is still equal in the end.

Maybe caps serve their purpose when a new raid tier is released, but the next patch shouldn't be so rigid, just let people gear up and use their gear. Remember how much people would talk that it took more time to get your Relic than actually using it? I feel the same about a lot of weekly capped stuff.

Let's break it down.

3.4 released

ilvl 250 Proto-Alexandrian
ilvl 250 Crafted
ilvl 255 Sophic weapons
ilvl 260 Shire
ilvl 270 Alexandrian
ilvl 270 Augmented Shire

3.5 released

ilvl 260 Diabolic
ilvl 265 Zurvanite weapons
Shillings were added to upgrade Shire weekly
ilvl 270 Proto-Ultima accessories

From this list, we can immediately cross out all 250 gear and the 260 Diabolic. It's rendered instantly obsolete since why farm inferior gear with RNG when you can just spam faceroll dungeons? If the loot restrictions on Alex normal are also removed, well, you don't need Sophic weapons. People have no reason to run A9-11N more than once save occasional fun since you get nothing out of it; run A12N seven times per job and that's irrelevant next. By the time 3.5 drops, people literally only need to run Dun Scaith to upgrade their Shire. And if it lacks restrictions too, they can spam it. Even if you aren't hardcore, it doesn't take long nor do you need get everything. What about Solm Al and Baelsar's Wall? Four months later, even snail pace players will likely have farmed all they want scripture wise. Now you have two dungeons that will only be popular for a week or two as there's no reason to run them.

Basically, it invalidates a large amount of content. These restrictions are meant to keep people subbed. Some, like Momo will wait out the restrictions and return when they can gear however they please. Most won't. They'll play whenever the new patch launches and whether it takes two weeks or two month, be set gear wise and have no incentive to run any content. Raiders will be bis within the first month and likely unsub by 3.5 once they've exhausted speed killing and casual players will struggle dealing with slow queues in content no longer needed. I didn't even mention dungeon and diadem gear. It's pretty much DOA. Unfortunately, there has to be some form of limitation on progression in a sub based game. If not tomestones then RNG or some other potentially annoying restriction. Being able to get everything you want quickly removes player incentive to continuously play. Some games limit progression with week restrictions while others gate through immensely long grinds (Black Desert and Blade & Soul). They all serve the same purpose; keeping the majority of players subbed. I won't say FFXIV can't improve. It's certainly far from perfect, but there will always been a limit.

[MomomiMomi]

Very few people abruptly change jobs during progression, especially as statics often try to build around what you're previously selected. How often does say, a Dragoon decide, "I want to go Bard" three weeks into Savage? A good number of statics would flatout kick you if you insist because they'll now have three ranged and you already agreed to play a melee. Even were that scenario to occur, it's not like you cannot obtain enough gear to make it work. A9/A10 were easily pug-able this tier. If you wanted to swap jobs, get some accessories and maybe something on your left side. If that still isn't enough, sorry but... plan ahead next time. You don't go into Savage level content thinking "I'll play and gear whatever. Everyone'll be okay with that!"

What you're asking is to design a system around people being indecisive. You have four weeks before you can even buy something with pages; six if it's anything except accessories. If you can't commit to one job by that point, it isn't the game's fault. Regardless, this still brings us back to if you can farm everything from the onset, you take away any incentive to keep playing later on. And as I already mentioned above, unlocking tomestones destroys most alternative gearing methods.

What you're describing is a symptom of how the game currently works and is exactly what I'm talking about is the problem with how it currently works.

[Nixxe]

A lot do. Or rather they care about the proverbial carrot. Take away mounts from the extreme primals and I guarantee each and every single one will be dead content within a month; two tops. How many people complain about running the same two dungeons? If they could hit 2000 Scripture in a week and gear up their main job. How often do you think they'll keep running those same dungeons? I barely run them even with the tomestone restrictions. It's simple human nature. Most people won't do something unless they are in some way benefited. At least not consistently. No matter how nice and helpful someone may be, eventually they'll get tired. And this doesn't even take into consideration crafted gear becomes completely worthless. Who's going to buy gear of the market board for thousands when they can spam Gubal Hard ten times? What about Alex Normal. Clear it once and just spam dungeons for Scriptures. Even if you bump everything up to 260, people will then farm whatever happens to be fastest.

None of this insinuates players only play for gear. It merely posits most won't run content 20-30-50 times for no reason other than "the dungeon looks pretty."

A perfect example are the 24 man raids. Crystal Tower was dead content until the Anima forced us all back into it. How many people would run Void Ark/Weeping/Dun Scaith if they could get everything they wanted in a couple weeks-- less if they're willing to farm?

It's really not possible to have a productive conversation on this topic if you want to keep conflating the specific issue of gear with the broader concept of having any reason whatsoever to do the content. Ponies are decidedly not gear related and are the perfect example of things that will keep people doing content even if you let them gear up quickly and easily. There are still pony farm groups, actual pony farms, not birds, even to this day. The gear is worthless, but the cosmetic reward never loses value so long as there are people who don't have it and want it. Gear is a very temporary incentive even at the best of times.

[Misutoraru]

I am probably the minority that welcome the weekly lock
so I dont have to play FFXIV like going to work, before everyone done the content in few weeks and gone
I found it quite suit my pace, new content have a weekly lock, and when those new content no longer new, the cap increase/leave the cap
i personally believe it do more good than harm

[Istaru]

I would be fine with a compromise system.

Keep the lockouts, but make them by role. You can gain the currently weekly amount (450 tomestones, weekly gear, whatever) each for tank, healer, melee DPS, ranged physical and ranged caster.

If you want to do more than you do now, you can, it just gets applied by the role you are playing. That allows people who want to gear multiple roles the ability to do so and feel that they are staying current.

It also safeguards the people who do not play as much. All progression is capped at 450 tomestones per week, one 8 man raid drop, one 24 man raid drop just like it is now. As long as the more casual player gets their drop for their job, they are still on a level playing field.

It would still take the same amount of time to fully gear a single role, so it should not lead to a mass exodus over nothing to do.

There are still caps, so the instantaneous burnout from grinding out all the things in a week would be avoided.

Having one cap makes sense in a game where your character will only ever be a single job/role. The caps and the character usage are in alignment. It is 1 cap to 1 role.

We have 13, soon to be 15, combat jobs and 5 roles. Being encouraged to level and play multiple types of jobs but only being allowed to gear one is not in balance. I think a balance of 5 separate caps for 5 separate roles would be a more balanced approach.

[Rufalus]

I think the problem is people not being aware of what content is available and thinking that tomestones are the only way to gear up.

Tomestones could be deleted and you'd still be able to gear up in high-level armor.
Crafted 250/255 (no weekly limit).
Diadem 265 (no weekly limit).
Alexander 270 (no weekly limit).

For weapons there is Kinna/PotD 255 > Zurvan 265 > Alex/Anima 275.

You'll get preferable stats by taking items from a variety of content instead of gearing yourself exclusively in scripture tomestone items.

[Kaethra]

The only reason to have lockouts is a lack of design initiative. That's it. The game has a monthly cost. They need to keep players subbed, which means spreading out the goal of that sub. In this case, its gearing through content.

This idea to prevent player burnout is false. Players will only ever play as much as they want to.

I've played MMOs that do not have daily, weekly, or monthly caps or lockouts on anything. When you max out one class, you merely start on another. New content is released around the time that the average player (if they start at day one) reaches most of their stuff capped, or even before.

The trick of course is to follow a very very simple design philosophy:

"When adding content or features to a game, would the players engage it without any reward?"

If the answer is yes, add the feature or content.
If the answer is no, redesign it.

If you're over 30, you'll likely remember when games did this. Many NES, SNES, Genesis (or earlier like Atari/Intellivision), and quarter sucking arcade games were like that. If you remember doing a play through of Super Mario Bros without using the warps in 1-2 and 4-2 to skip to 8-1 and instead played through Worlds 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7. There was no reward for doing so, just the experience of it.

This isn't to say rewards are bad. They should be tools. Like gear. Getting gear should mean opening up new content. Not opening content gets you new gear. Its a bit backwards.

[Talraen]

The only reason to have lockouts is a lack of design initiative. That's it. The game has a monthly cost. They need to keep players subbed, which means spreading out the goal of that sub. In this case, its gearing through content.

This idea to prevent player burnout is false. Players will only ever play as much as they want to.

You're thinking about this entirely in the context of yourself. Even if burnout didn't exist, lockouts still have an important function: allowing people to keep up. If being able to play 8 hours a day makes you significantly better than being able to play 2 hours a day, you're going to create multiple classes of players. And the 2-hour-a-day players far outnumber the 8-hour-a-day players, so that would be very bad for business.