Lackluster Graphics in FFXIV

[Abriael]

The 100 on-screen characters already do this. I'll repeat myself again and again to keep my info-graphic on the front page.... Ambient Occlusion taxes the system waay more than landscape and structures casting shadows.

This: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Floodlight.png :will make the game look greattttt for those of us crazy enough to spend $400 on a GPU!!!! WOOOOO!

You forgot a detail that's been told over and over already. Implementing Ambient occlusion has been stated by SE as a futureproof option. It's not supposed to be used (while I find it's inclusion to be rather silly, I would have left it out, as it causes confusion and I don't know a single person taking advantage of it). They put it in for the simple fact that it took basically no resources to include it.

Unlike dynamic shading/lighting, it's such a simple (in implementation) effect that you can force it on almost every game from your video card control panel if your VC is powerful enough. Even if it's not implemented in the game.

The 100 on screen characters don't cast shadow on each other, by the way. Just on themselves and the ground. Luckily their shadow is small, and the problem is almost unnoticeable.
Adding environmental shadows would involve shadows to be cast on every single character happening to walk in the area, which is a LOT different.

[Meleena]

Is it so much to ask SE to make the landscape cast shadows as well? Easy Peezy Japaneezy!

Perhaps, if you say it in Japaneezy and with the right tags...

[BelgianRofl]

In a prior post, you said something like if SE changed the way light functions, they'd have to go in and do it manually for each individual light source that's already in the game...

The light sources are already there. All SE has to do is change one part of the engine. All they have to do is add the an option to change the behavior of light. That technology is already in their engine, as proven by you [character's casting shadows perfectly]. All SE has to do is use that same technology for landscapes and structures. It would take a novice programmer to add that behavior to the light module. WHAM BAM THANK YOU MA'AM

[Abriael]

In a prior post, you said something like if SE changed the way light functions, they'd have to go in and do it manually for each individual light source that's already in the game...

The light sources are already there. All SE has to do is change one part of the engine. All they have to do is add the an option to change the behavior of light. That technology is already in their engine, as proven by you [character's casting shadows perfectly]. All SE has to do is use that same technology for landscapes and structures. It would take a novice programmer to add that behavior to the light module. WHAM BAM THANK YOU MA'AM

And that's where your idea of game development is oversimplified . It's not just a single toggle.
if you have a static light that is there just "for effect", there are a lot of parameters that you don't need to set. Or better again, you need to set them *only* for the visual effect that you included.

Say you have three lights in a room. Those three lights, as they are implemented now, just need to look good in their lighting effect, no other tweaks are needed. Setting their intensity and direction is very simple, because the effect you want to attain is simple.

Now say that the three lights have to involve dynamic shading and lighting. You need to manually reset every single intensity and direction, because now the lights have a completely different environmental and aesthetical effect than they did. They cast shadows, they interact with each other. They may be too intense and actually hide details of the environment that you don't want to hide, or even be too much "in the face" of the camera, detracting from the whole scene. You may also have to tweak the color, because it's very possible that the original color doesn't interact well with the textures of the environment.

You cannot just toggle "lights on!" and leave it like that. The result would be ugly. If a novice programmer could easily do that (it's not even just a matter of coding, it involves art direction and coordination with the art department), I'm afraid that novice programmers would find jobs in the industry much easier.

It's not random that development studios have dedicated artists just for lighting.

[Ayerc]

It's not random that development studios have dedicated artists just for lighting.

This.

Lighting is the most difficult aspect of any 3d rendering (static or dynamic). I do a lot of rendering in my major (Architecture) and lighting is where a majority of my time is spent, not because I'm bad at it, but because it just takes an incredible amount of time to tweak the light parameters to gain realistic effects. In addition to that, the lighting elements exponentially increase your render time (read: taxes your GPU/CPU processors heavily). With so many primary and fill lights in any given location, it isn't a simple "turn on/off" situation.

In an open world like FFXIV, with so many objects to render and shade, there has to be some give and take with today's hardware limitations.

[BelgianRofl]

Those three lights, as they are implemented now, just need to look good in their lighting effect, no other tweaks are needed. Setting their intensity and direction is very simple, because the effect you want to attain is simple.

Now say that the three lights have to involve dynamic shading and lighting. You need to manually reset every single intensity and direction, because now the lights have a completely different environmental and aesthetical effect than they did. They cast shadows, they interact with each other. They may be too intense and actually hide details of the environment that you don't want to hide, or even be too much "in the face" of the camera, detracting from the whole scene. You may also have to tweak the color, because it's very possible that the original color doesn't interact well with the textures of the environment.

You cannot just toggle "lights on!" and leave it like that. The result would be ugly. If a novice programmer could easily do that (it's not even just a matter of coding, it involves art direction and coordination with the art department), I'm afraid that novice programmers would find jobs in the industry much easier.

It's not random that development studios have dedicated artists just for lighting.

This is a valid point and a good one. I will cut SE some slack on the shading portion. Since they didn't design the game to have shadows originally, it would take a lot of work for them to implement them now when there are bigger fish to fry.

I hope they take the time in the future to add this effect. It will further futureproof this game beyond your wildest dreams!


I still stand firm that adding reflection to the water is a no-brainer, and light on the system resources.

[Abriael]

T
I still stand firm that adding reflection to the water is a no-brainer, and light on the system resources.

I would bother implementing it only once the hardware can actually hold reflection of the environment *and* characters.

There's a big problem with implementing just reflection of the environment, and that's that FFXIV has several areas in which characters can actually step into the water.
personally, I find seeing the water reflect the environment, and not the character that's sitting right on it rather distracting and aesthetically shoddy.

Environment-only reflection works well only in those games in which getting *into* the water isn't allowed, in my opinion.

[Janglo]

This is a valid point and a good one. I will cut SE some slack on the shading portion. Since they didn't design the game to have shadows originally, it would take a lot of work for them to implement them now when there are bigger fish to fry.

I hope they take the time in the future to add this effect. It will further futureproof this game beyond your wildest dreams!


I still stand firm that adding reflection to the water is a no-brainer, and light on the system resources.

If they didn't want players to expect shadows and reflections don't add them to the cutscenes or game. It's just a tease. What about sitting at a table in adventure guild looking at leves with friends? or jumping around setting fires to a friends arrow? I haven't seen much that ties this game playability wise to what they tout in the opening movie. Do you heal your party members through the holes in their gear? Also in that scene notice the water and the reflections/shadows just to hammer home my point. I didn't make the game I just got tempted into it. But these seem like low-priority, easy problems to fix. Aside from the combat and armor systems which are already in re-development. I realize that the cs is far superior to what in game can accomplish but still, the difference is fairly extreme and GW2 has seemed to solve the issue of reflections at least.

[Nightkat]

For some reason I actually bothered to read every post in this thread, so I feel like not posting would be a waste. I agree with Wenceslas, the engine isn't fully optimized, it could use work; however I do enjoy FFXIV's graphics more-so than WoW's or Rift's. If you look at screen shots of the three next to each other, the realism of FFXIV is really what does it for me, not the level of minor imperfections present in each engine or the thought of how much better they could be. Sorry to feed the troll. Something something Charlie Sheen WINNING!

[MonsieurVerde]

Errr...you don't need a 400$ GPU to play this. >_>