[Suggestion] Solving the "Housing Problem"

[Penthea]

That literally describes housing. XD

I said a HABIT. Habit requires repetition. SE haven't made gigantic mess ups like this numerous times.

EDIT: unless you want to get overly pedantic and count most of 1.0, but I think we can all agree that was a very special case.

[Naunet]

I'm interested in your response to the first half of my post, if you'd care to share it. I'm not sure how much you know about WildStar's housing, as I don't find the comparisons to Garrisons to be at all... well, comparable.

[Penthea]

I'm interested in your response to the first half of my post, if you'd care to share it. I'm not sure how much you know about WildStar's housing, as I don't find the comparisons to Garrisons to be at all... well, comparable.

I can't comment on Wildstar housing as I have never experienced it.

[Naunet]

I was explaining why WildStar's housing is not comparable to Garrison's. You're worried about losing connection to the world and community with instanced housing, and I was pointing out that this doesn't happen with a fully fleshed-out housing system.

[Penthea]

I was explaining why WildStar's housing is not comparable to Garrison's. You're worried about losing connection to the world and community with instanced housing, and I was pointing out that this doesn't happen with a fully fleshed-out housing system.

It's not just about whether it's fully fleshed out or not, it's also about what direction it goes. Garrisons were very fleshed out and had a lot going on with them, but this didn't guarantee enjoyment. I have first hand experienced instanced housing/garrisons/caravans/whatever go very very wrong. Naturally I'm concerned about the idea of going through such huge disappointment again.

I seriously doubt SE will do what Blizzard did, but this doesn't mean they won't do something else wrong instead. I hope they will be very careful if they do bring in something drastically different. Great ideas don't always become great content.

[Solarra]

I think we should forget WoW's garrisons, they were never designed as player housing but more as a throwback to WoW's RTS roots. WoW's devs repeatedly said they did not see any place for player housing in the game.

The second point I'd like to make is this, I don't think anyone is suggesting we scrap the wards. I sincerely doubt Square would even consider it after they have spent so much time and effort creating them. However, there are huge issues with the present system: only a tiny proportion of players can buy a house and even with the demolition timer, many of the wards are dead. What we are suggesting is expanding the apartment system so they offer more space and have as much utility as a house, or simply that they add instanced player-housing as an option.
Is there a chance they might get it wrong? Of course, but the developers have definitely proven themselves willing to listen and make changes. We already have a flawed system, with the majority of players unable to buy a house. Not doing anything about this because the devs might not come up with the perfect solution straight away, isn't going to improve things.

[Penthea]

I think we should forget WoW's garrisons, they were never designed as player housing but more as a throwback to WoW's RTS roots.

They were not intended as player housing but did fill some of the roles player housing does. My concern about instancing all player housing is the isolation it causes. There are obviously ways to mitigate this, but Blizzard were hardly new to the mmo scene and still managed to forget the game thrives on players being together. I see people in this thread and others saying things like "SE should scrap everything and make an instance per house" whereas I think the game would benefit much more if SE found a way to make housing available to more players while still keeping places like wards in the game.

What we are suggesting is expanding the apartment system so they offer more space and have as much utility as a house

I have said similar a few times now. The first step SE really need to make is to address how basic apartments are. I think nearly every player expected a balcony where you could do a little gardening and decorating, given that apartments irl often have them. But they're not apartments really. They're just fc rooms outside of fc houses. Everything is the same and you basically cough up an extra 200k for not needing to be in a fc. Really not worth the money.

I think we haven't seen apartments improve since because they were added within the limitations of the wards. I don't know the tech behind it but I think we can safely assume SE would have added more and/or bigger apartments if it was possible from the beginning. I sincerely hope that they will do more than just add Shirogane and the fc house transfer in Stormblood. I think we can hope they are changing and updating the tech behind the wards given that the fc house transfer system would most likely require this. So maybe soon we will see really big changes. /crosses fingers

[Moonlite]

[QUOTE=Penthea;4113082 Whatever there is to be said of SE, I haven't yet seen them make a habit of introducing massive features that don't align with what players want or need.[/QUOTE]

Just off the top of my head Tokens, scrips, weekly lockouts, diadem, vermillion, GC restrictions, refusal to design around storage capacity, specialist recipes, hunts.

I quit WoW a long time ago. But I am told garrisons allowed better leveling and gathering. So no point to leave. No one is asking them to put mining nodes in houses. Next Balmung is a huge server the world isn't that full. You can count the number of players in some zone on your hands. People already afk congregate in a few spots. "Oh No, less people afk in idylshire and uldah." The open world thing is dead once you reach max level. We might as well make people walk to each instance before they can enter.

Let us also not forget the cross world party finder. Grouping with players you will never see. So SE can keep dead servers open. That's immersive as well.

Unless SE has some magical fix that makes the current system FAIR for all players. Not seeing another player when I am at a house is not much of a loss.

[Penthea]

Just off the top of my head Tokens, scrips, weekly lockouts, diadem, vermillion, GC restrictions, refusal to design around storage capacity, specialist recipes, hunts.

Some of those are a matter of opinion and none of those are major expansions features on the scale that WoW garrisons were. Garrisons were central to the WoD expansion, it was literally the flagship feature. Something on a similar scale would be SE messing up flying, seeing as that is a major feature of the HW expansion.

I quit WoW a long time ago. But I am told garrisons allowed better leveling and gathering. So no point to leave.

There was a point in leaving up until you reached max lvl. WoW's end game has always mostly been about going into instances. The problem people had with garrisons was that players idled at their garrison instead of a hub when they were queueing for them, so places looked empty. It's not just about whether garrisons offered a garden for herbs and all the rest, it was also about how the majority of max lvl players chose to spend their time outside of instances in there. Of course you could definitely argue that Blizzard were at fault for not giving players a good reason to idle elsewhere.

Of course instanced housing can be done right without isolating players, but my point is that instancing by nature is isolation. Unless SE are careful about it, instanced housing could just replace one problem with another. Yea maybe I'm being too negative about the idea of it, but I was excited as hell for garrisons and it ended up being one of the worst things to happen to WoW. So yea the idea of making all housing in the game instanced just irks me because of it.

Let us also not forget the cross world party finder. Grouping with players you will never see. So SE can keep dead servers open. That's immersive as well.

This really has very little to do with housing. Even less so than WoW garrisons. I mean we may as well start arguing that a line of blue dots at the entrance of a zone isn't immersive.

[Moonlite]

This really has very little to do with housing. Even less so than WoW garrisons. I mean we may as well start arguing that a line of blue dots at the entrance of a zone isn't immersive.

The point is you seem to desire to see other players. You don't like players hanging out inside instances. The MMO of real communities were dead the instant they made cross server groups. What does it matter if you see someone standing in front of a house? Core game play is instanced players just don't have to see each other. You seem to think game play should be designed around the idea that players should idle next to each other.

Players in instanced housing has nothing to do with housing or garrisons. If gameplay is designed that open world interaction is pointless. Which it is currently in FF14. Once you have reached a certain gil amount you would never have to see another player outside an instance. Hell Once MSQ has everything unlocked you have zero reason to be outside. That is not the fault of instanced housing.

Instanced housing doesn't need to be done right. You have an instance, players have a house period. If developers can't convince you to go outside that is a game play flaw not a house flaw.