Thread: Machinist extinction in 4.0?

Originally Posted by Freyt

Never knew there was so much heat on Machinist. I just got through the 3.0 story with Machinist and by the end of it I felt like I had a fairly solid grasp. Sure there are some aspects of it that I think could be streamlined, but I don't really think it's so bad.

There has been heat on MCH since release of 3.0. Heck on release of 3.0 it was considered the weakest Job in the game and certain hate to it for "slowing down" dungeon runs due to being the lowest DPS job until they buffed the Job later.

Despite the Buff the main issue people have with MCH has been the RNG mechanic on the basic 123 combo as it is a very double edge sword once ammo is on cooldown. If player is lucky they can maintain a decent DPS until Ammo is no longer on cooldown but if unlucky they end up performing the lost damage compared to all DPS Job until the ammo is back up.

What they do with Machinist in 4.0 will certainly affect this Job at max level content more than the other Jobs due to its current position in 3.X era. Though we are still 3 months away from 4.0 release and probably only 2 months away from the 4.0 Job Skills and Artifact Armor Trailer

Originally Posted by CosmicKirby

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It just a idea that goes back to the original concept of Machinist which was the modify the Gun for different gameplay styles. From what was said before what we got in 3.0 MCH was probably going to the AST of the DPS job involving different Weapon Modifications for different combat styles. Of course that was scrapped and we got this MCH due to the original design been too ambitious and they didn't have enough time to finish it.

Originally Posted by Kahnom

What's gonna happen if SE removes the RNG proc system in 4.0 ?
Will it attract more ppl to play ?
or
The already-main mch will complain about losing its aesthetics ?

The majority would probably be more happy the RNG is gone on Machinist considering it is the RNG Mechanic that people consider the Primary issue with the Job thus the low played population.

It is a very out of control mechanic that leaves a lot on chance when the ammo is on cooldown.

Personally I don't think MCH was the weakest job in 3.0, it was AST. People just didn't figure out how to play MCH yet back in the day. Even after guides came out for the jobs, people consider MCH to be the most complicated job till today.

Sure all new jobs got buffed at some point and MCH buff made it preferable over BRD (If you guys remember the days when no one wanted a BRD). Then BRD got buffed to balance both ranged roles.

People have cleared A4S with DRK and MCH. AST on the other hand was not necessary. (SCH/WHM) was still optimal over (SCH/AST).

Also MCH is not good for 20s only. A very good MCH can top charts or have very minimal difference to other DPs at their best (100-150 difference).

Personally, I don't want MCH changes to make it a clone of any other job. But changes are welcome

Originally Posted by Yeol

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I actually find Machinist to be the most mind numbingly easiest Job to play in this game as it is more 123 button focused than the other jobs.

Only time a player would have to go off pushing a 1, 12, or 123 combo is every 30 seconds to refill Lead and Hot shot then back to 123 combo while weaving Reload, Quick reload, Guass Round, Ricochet, and damage buffs. Then slap on Wildfire here and there for extra damage.

MCH is certainly a Weaving Heavy Job but it is also one of the most 123 combo focus jobs in this game compared to other jobs.

The charm I find when playing MCH is the weaving because it is like a Dance. Once you get the feeling for that dance you just naturally weave skills together for a easy flow of attacks step by step. It reach a point that eventually you won't even see the Reload and Quick reload animation as you weave together skills during the 1, 12, and 123 combo.

I actually had a few times when people ask me why I don't load ammo using Reload and Quick reload because they could not see the Reload and Quick Reload animation as I was weaving together skills. Of course I told them I have when I am weaving together attacks and they notice the ammo buff right after.

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

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I also find MCH easy and fun because I main it :P but if you ask those who don't main it (As you read from some posts) They find it complicated.
Even if you search about it online you'll find the same results.

It is probably because you go from 2.5 - 1.5 - cast - no cast - instant and stance dancing. I like to keep my hands and mind busy is why I main this job.

Machinist to me feels like a class that requires more technical knowledge than most, a large portion of their damage comes from their opener and burst rotations around their buff timers. Considering we all know by now that the vast majority of the community doesn't know what an opener even is, that shuts off a big portion of the playerbase in terms of accessibility. The RNG just exacerbates that even further.

It also doesn't help that there's a perception that the class is way too similar to Bard mechanically. This was made especially clear during 3.2-3.3, where BRD players were encouraged to swap to MCH to be more effective during that raid tier. When Bard got buffed and we went into 3.4, I imagine many players that played MCH during the previous raid tier simply went back to Bard.

As someone that runs roulettes solo every day, I'm lucky if I run into even ONE Machinist in a week. Hell, the last time I saw one in an EX dungeon run was during the very first day of 3.5 (my very first run of Sohm Al HM - which somehow ended up being a 12 minute speedrun that I've yet to replicate).

Originally Posted by EdwinLi

The charm I find when playing MCH is the weaving because it is like a Dance.

Nice way to put it.
For me,If Monk represents Waltz dance then Mch probably represents Tap dance.

Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

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The Bard and Machinist comparision can partly blamed on how Bard was in 2.0. In 2.0 bard was the most mindless easy class of the game to play as with little to no thought required to play. Of course you could still tell even today which Bard just mindlessly play Bard and those who put thought into their job as bard by if they use their Song or not during certain team setups.

Now Bard requires some thinking into their gameplay since they need to consider the 1.5 second charge for majority of their skills whiel also maintaining their Condition damage.

Machinist suffers less on this with GB on since only 3 skills should be on 1.5 second charge while everything else is still instant cast thus making MCh more mobile than Bard now.

Originally Posted by Kahnom

Nice way to put it.
For me,If Monk represents Waltz dance then Mch probably represents Tap dance.

Basically how I would describe it considering if you put together the 123 skills with weave and reload in between it sounds like a step dance.

Though it gets annoying when the dance reach a "1, weave, 1, weave, 1, weave, Quick Reload, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1" phase due to bad luck during Reload Skill cooldown

Originally Posted by Aamalthea

I want to be like Merlwyb SO BAD.

Think about this now I would have prefered a Gun Mage Job over a Dual Gunner Job or the Machinist. There is just something interesting when you combine Guns and Magic together for a single Job but sadly FF series don't have a Gun Mage Job.

Plenty of Chemical, Tech, and natural Gun Skill Gunner Jobs but no Gun Mage Job yet. FFX-2 Gun Mage does not count since it was just the game's Blue Mage.

Originally Posted by Ghastly

It took me ALL of heavensward to learn how to play machinist............
That's how strict this job is and why it needs more simplifying than any class. If Yoshida thinks black mage became too complex with enochain he should really try out machinist and find out how high the focus one needs to play a machinist is.

Out of all the classes I've played with mch my eyes are 99% of the time on the hotbars. I can't look away from them because the moment I do the rotation and buffs will ruin the dps numbers by a lot. I know that's true for a lot of jobs but for mch it's bad...if you mess up the rotation and end up with dead (no proc) rotations you're in for a bad time.

At the moment I can do a lot of damage and keep up with other dps, but again...it took me 2 years to actually keep up with other dps classes. It needs a lot of simplifying.

Out of my fc/linkshells I can honestly say I only know 3 people that play the class in a real way. It's too rare.
The way to fix mch is just to make it simpler like they did with ARR summoner to HW summoner. Also maybe remove the rng procs or remove hotshot or something. There's just too many things a mch needs to prepare (hotshot, blood for blood, hawk's eye, the dot skill, raging strikes).

Monk has to keep up as many things but they don't deal with rng.......

Also I hope they add a dual gun stance for mch....I want to be like merlwyb T_T
Make it like enochain, a limited time thing where you can use 2 guns

Either way I hope they just make all the preparing for mch simpler and the reloading timer less strict, maybe decrease the reload skill cooldowns.

Bard main here. Picked up Machinist, practiced it for a few weeks; can now do all content, Savage and Extremes included comfortably on my Machinist also. The class has a few quirks (like stance-dancing outside ogcd/dot windows, or timing your Wildfires), but I think this is overstating the complexity of the class. With Reload and Quick Reload, the Machinist already has quite a lot of control over the RNG procs. Aside from watching out for the RNG procs, it's not really that different from any other class timing their cooldowns. Therefore, I don't really find myself watching the hotbars any more than on my other classes. Albeit, Bard gameplay is somewhat similar and I'm already used to side-eyeing for constant Bloodletter procs which may have helped with the transition.

Machinist can seem intimidating at first, but it's not really that bad. In fact, it's quite a lot of fun if you enjoy fast-paced gameplay that does not follow an entirely scripted rotation. I'd rather not see the class get simplified from its current state.