Stop Making Should-Be Achievement Gear.."Optional Gear"

[PotatoTree]

They could have never added a cash shop, and you would never have gotten things like Minfilia's Outfit.

People need to stop trying to be armchair developers. If you haven't even worked in the MMO business to any degree, you aren't qualified to tell those who are developing a highly successful MMO what they are "doing wrong".

Now you're making assumptions. It could very well be the other way, that without a cashshop we'd get the outfit since it was paid by our sub. And your cash shop money could be funnelling into other non-ffxiv ventures for all you know. We're talking $60 games, $60 expansions, monthly sub fees, and more. This game is magnitudes more costly than any AAA game, and comparable to a fairly expensive hobby.

And so far where are we at now? I guess we got so much money from the cash shop that we can increase the number of dungeons per patch from 3 to 2 right!!! Oh wait.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the game. I've spent countless money subbing from 1.0, getting retainers, buying merchandise, etc. Possibly in the thousands now. If we want to use money as a metric to judge "support", then well I'm probably a bigger "fan" than 99% of players here. But I'm not going to pretend that SE isn't greedy. The only thing that needs to stop is people constantly trying to white night triple dipping.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

Now you're making assumptions. It could very well be the other way, that without a cashshop we'd get the outfit since it was paid by our sub. And your cash shop money could be funnelling into other non-ffxiv ventures for all you know. We're talking $60 games, $60 expansions, monthly sub fees, and more. This game is magnitudes more costly than any AAA game, and comparable to a fairly expensive hobby.

And so far where are we at now? I guess we got so much money from the cash shop that we can increase the number of dungeons per patch from 3 to 2 right!!! Oh wait.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the game. I've spent countless money subbing from 1.0, getting retainers, buying merchandise, etc. Possibly in the thousands now. If we want to use money as a metric to judge "support", then well I'm probably a bigger "fan" than 99% of players here. But I'm not going to pretend that SE isn't greedy. The only thing that needs to stop is people constantly trying to white night triple dipping.

I'm not a white knight for any game. I just understand how the business side of MMO development and revenue generation and allocation works to a degree. I'm not claiming to be an expert mind you, just that I have some measure of experience with it. In all likelihood, if the cash shop didn't exist, no you wouldn't have seen the Scion outfits added "just because". Not if they required extra work (which means extra cost) to make them useable for all the races. Every game has a budget it must adhere to in order to create its content. After that initial investment to get a game launched, game developers and their investors are looking to recoup their investment AND make a profit above and beyond. That's why those investors made the investment after all. Now there's a cost associated with maintaining those game servers, paying employees, and for future development, and subs are the primary method of recouping the initial investment and sustaining the game overall.

When a content patch is planned, it has a budget just like the initial game or an expansion has. What content gets made for that patch must fall within the budget or it doesn't get made. When SE makes something intended for the shop, that item is outside the budget. To justify the expense of making that item, its put forward as a way to generate additional income for the company. Those in charge analyze and make projections on how likely they are to not only recoup the expense, but also how much of a profit they expect to make for the effort.

You did mention something of note though. You are indeed correct that our "cash shop money" and in fact even some of our monthly sub money, could be (and to be transparent, almost certainly is) "funneled" into other non-ffxiv ventures. That's entirely intended. How do you think a game company generates capital to make other games without relying solely on investors or to encourage investors to jump on board? They use profits from their existing IP's that are currently generating revenue to fund their new projects and/or to show investors they have some "skin in the game" as it were.

The bulk of FFXIV's revenue is most likely folded back into the game for future development, but its virtually guaranteed that some of it goes to fund other projects. A game company cannot rely solely on a single IP to carry it for its entire existence. Why do you think Blizzard is putting out games like Hearthstone and Overwatch and Heroes of the Storm? They know WoW can't last forever and they need to diversify their portfolio to continue as a business.

SE is no different. But at the same time, those other IP's SE may be investing your sub money into could be highly successful and generate addition revenue that could, in turn, be put back into FFXIV allowing for bigger and better expansions and content patches.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Now that the cash shop is established, every time a new minion/mount/gear is designed there will be some guy in management wondering if it could be put in the cash shop instead. It's a conflict of interest.

If they want more money they should make the game better so more people want to sub.

That isn't how it works. Yoshi and the devs have no say in what gets put on the Mogstation. Such things are handled by corporate executive who essentially mandate it because people buy them. Micro-transactions are a direct response to the staggering costs involved with developing a game. Final Fantasy X cost a meager $34 million back in 2000. Nowadays, it's not uncommon for games to break the hundred million mark. Companies aren't going to simply eat those losses. Therefore, they look to push them onto customers, who in all fairness, demand the highest quality. That quality comes with a price. Were it not micro-transactions, game prices would rise considerably. Capcom even flatout admitted they want to charge more. And I believe EA shared similar sentiments. Instead, they adopted micro-transactions, which at least gives people a choice. I don't have to pay extra unless I so choose. FFXIV takes this a step further and literally offers nothing that isn't aesthetic. I'd rather that than pay significantly higher for the game or subscription.

Want it to change? Convince people to stop supporting it. Complaining on the forums won't do a thing because the people reading it have no say. Speak with your wallet.

[PotatoTree]

...

First, how does Yoshi not having a say matter at all? Are these people from management not part of SE? We're complaining about SE here. And again, there is no transparency with the money here, and of course they don't need to be. But you assume that the money is going into this game, when for all you know it could be going into making some next mobile game.

I don't intend to change anything by complaining on the forums. They rarely listen to forum posts, and anyone who has a negative opinion has already left the game or is banned from the forum. It's just an echo chamber here.

I also clearly don't intend to change anything with microtransactions, as I'm obviously still paying for stuff and still playing the game here. I'm not strapped for cash or anything. But the triple dipping principle and how you and others seem to think this is not only the future of gaming, but that it's necessary, is very disappointing.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

First, how does Yoshi not having a say matter at all? Are these people from management not part of SE? We're complaining about SE here. And again, there is no transparency with the money here, and of course they don't need to be. But you assume that the money is going into this game, when for all you know it could be going into making some next mobile game.

I don't intend to change anything by complaining on the forums. They rarely listen to forum posts, and anyone who has a negative opinion has already left the game or is banned from the forum. It's just an echo chamber here.

I also clearly don't intend to change anything with microtransactions, as I'm obviously still paying for stuff and still playing the game here. I'm not strapped for cash or anything. But the triple dipping principle and how you and others seem to think this is not only the future of gaming, but that it's necessary, is very disappointing.

Because financial matters are not handled by development teams. They are allocated a specific amount and told to produce content. Nevertheless, we have an example from Square Enix themselves in Deus Ex-- whose devs were told to include micro-transactions two weeks before the game's release. Another such example comes from EA's notorious time constraints and micromanagement of their development branches. Whomever designs gear is likely told to set aside something for the Mogstation or to make something specifically appealing to entice people into buying it. And no, I make no assumptions. I know what we pay doesn't go directly into the game. FFXIV more or less paid for FFXV and FFVII: Remake. That is simply how large corporations work. Frankly, so long as they continue to provide quality content to FFXIV, I don't particularly care. On the other hand, if it ever becomes clear they aren't focusing on XIV, I have the choice to stop supporting it.

While I have issues with how the forums are moderated. It's far from an echo chamber. We've had threads asking if Yoshi should be fired which spanned 30+ pages.

I never said it's necessary. I merely offered a pragmatic perspective. It's no different than in real world politics when people demand corporations be taxed higher. Why aren't they? Because those same corporations would simply up their prices. Micro-transactions are publishing companies looking to offset the increased costs of game development onto the customer in a manner with the least potential backlash.

[Alestorm]

The thing is most of our sub fees go to the costs of running, maintaining and (soon) upgrading the servers.

[Alerion]

I always find it interesting that some people actually like getting taken advantage of to the point of defending it. There used to be a time where 100% of in-game items would be obtainable, you know, in-game in subscription based MMOs. They didn't need the extra money to continue supporting the game.

In my opinion cash shops in subscription based games should only offer services such as transfers, name changes, race changes and the like. You're quite the sucker if you support something like the Red Baron or White Devil recolors for a stunning $12.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

I always find it interesting that some people actually like getting taken advantage of to the point of defending it. There used to be a time where 100% of in-game items would be obtainable, you know, in-game in subscription based MMOs. They didn't need the extra money to continue supporting the game.

In my opinion cash shops in subscription based games should only offer services such as transfers, name changes, race changes and the like. You're quite the sucker if you support something like the Red Baron or White Devil recolors for a stunning $12.

That "time where 100% of in-game items would be obtainable" you're remembering so fondly was also a time of "you got what the budget allowed them to create and not a drop more". Times change, as do business models. It's not about "needing" money to support the game. It's about expanding your business as a whole, not just one specific IP. Could SE run FFXIV on subs alone? Probably. Would that limit how much they could invest in expansions and content patches? DEFINITELY.

Your opinion that someone is a "sucker" for paying for something they want is noted, but it's just that, an opinion. I certainly don't feel like a sucker for buying the Thancred Modish outfit. I've used pieces of it for various outfits and its brought me a great deal of pleasure being able to make my character look the way I want him to. I'd wager others who have made purchases don't feel like suckers either. Just remember that those extra dollars people spend on the store are benfitting you directly by increasing the available budget for future FFXIV content. From my perspective, I'd say "thank you" to those people for helping the game I play grow. But that's just me.

The point that you may be missing however is that there is a market for these things, else SE wouldn't bother making them. Are they "taking advantage"? Mmmm, I suppose that's not inaccurate. They are "taking advantage" of a tap-able revenue source to expand the available resources to develop FFXIV and other SE intellectual properties. At the same time they are providing additional things for FFXIV players that go beyond the allotted budget, and apparently meeting a demand of their player base by doing so.

For me personally, there's very little I find desirable from the Mogstation, but damn if my eyes didn't light up at the prospect of getting that Thancred Modish outfit... something I would NEVER have gotten to have if they hadn't went above and beyond the allotted budget to make it useable by players, and put it into the store.

[Alerion]

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While you're correct about budgets your argument falls apart when you realize we could have it all spread over time. All it would take to add in those pieces is to push back a piece of craftable gear or some such to another patch.

You're putting far too much faith in a system designed to soak up every cent possible. There is nothing benevolent about a cash shop, believe me. It was an idea to support entire games in lieu of subscriptions. When companies realized they could actually double dip without much back lash that's when it became the norm. I'm not saying a for profit company is wrong for getting every bit they can, but I am saying if you're paying $12 for what amounts to a single artist's afternoon to recolor existing mounts, you just might be the sucker they're looking for. No one will argue it works.

So I suppose you're right, I do fondly remember the times of olde.

[Felis]

I always find it interesting that some people actually like getting taken advantage of to the point of defending it. There used to be a time where 100% of in-game items would be obtainable, you know, in-game in subscription based MMOs. They didn't need the extra money to continue supporting the game.

In my opinion cash shops in subscription based games should only offer services such as transfers, name changes, race changes and the like. You're quite the sucker if you support something like the Red Baron or White Devil recolors for a stunning $12.

Remove the cash shop without putting the cash shop item into the game will give you the 100% back and you will still not getting those items.

Ignore the cash shop, ignore anything from it as if those items don't exist and everything is good