Stop Making Should-Be Achievement Gear.."Optional Gear"

[BigRed5392]

You do realize that you don't HAVE to purchase OPTIONAL items, right? So who cares if others do? How does that concern you at all?

if you want the item, but don't have the extra money to pay for it.

could do what eso does, you buy a $15 sub. you get 1,500 crysta. It is getting to much where TOO much cosmetic is going into cash shop only.

the sub fee goes into making those items as well.

[BigRed5392]

snip

Explain older MMO, or even free to play donation only MuD?

cash shops didn't always exist yet mmo came out with plenty of extra content.

It's not complicated to explain. Older MMO's and MUDs didn't cost anywhere near what a AAA+ MMO costs today and the expected return on investment wasn't as high. Graphics were cruder and simpler. Modeling and texturing took less time and thus less money to create. Voice acting and cinematics were used sparringly if at all. Investors expected less return (but still a profit) from their investment. That's part of the reason why you don't see many MMO's pop up anymore. It's incredibly expensive now compared to back in the day. Especially now that voice acting is often expected, which can astronomically increase the costs of making a game.

In 2004, WoW cost 63 million to launch and over 200 MILLION over its first 4 years to maintain and develop. In 2011, SWTOR cost over 200 MILLION DOLLARS just to launch. Compare that to the 6 million it cost to develop Ultima Online or the 3 million it cost to make Everquest. That's an incredibly high financial risk to make with no guarantee of success and a return on investment. Making expansions is obviously cheaper but still very expensive. Even moreso today than in MMO's of the past because of the voice acting alone. Add in professional orchestras and vocalists to perform your epic soundtrack and you're talking about a great deal more money needed today than 10-20 years ago.

Here's an example from 1998's Baldur's Gate. One of the earlier pc games I saw with any sort of cinematic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYoRmGHIxA4

Compare THAT primitive thing to the cinematics we see today and tell me how much of a difference in cost it was to make them.

if you go to a money app that maths out inflation it is about the same. As in the 90s the doller was worth more.

they used all that stuff in gaming since a long time, it just came out 8bit for sound quality so no that isn't even a recent thing.

ff11 isn't that old of a game either and still running, had a smaller player base and never did a cash shop.

cash shop is used to supply the cash shop, sub fee is used on the game and cash shop. Adding too much to the cash shop, and not in game isn't good for business, as it can drive people away.


you sound like the "silly" person who works as ubisoft who told players when they found out it takes 2 years or 700 to do/get everything, that they not suppose to. It is a dumb move.

That's not how the development process works.



That's not your decision to make.

They could have never added a cash shop, and you would never have gotten things like Minfilia's Outfit. The content patches might have been smaller or have less voice acting or shorter cinematics due to not having the extra income generated by the cash shop as well.

People need to stop trying to be armchair developers. While you have every right to give feedback and share your opinions with the developers, if you haven't even worked in the MMO business to any degree, you aren't really qualified to tell those who are developing a highly successful MMO what they are "doing wrong" in how they generate and manage revenue.

you clearly have no idea how stuff works....

at any point they could have a side quest for minfilias outfit. The only armchair dev I see is you, as you clearly have no basis in how stuff works.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

Explain older MMO, or even free to play donation only MuD?

cash shops didn't always exist yet mmo came out with plenty of extra content.

It's not complicated to explain. Older MMO's and MUDs didn't cost anywhere near what a AAA+ MMO costs today and the expected return on investment wasn't as high. Graphics were cruder and simpler. Modeling and texturing took less time and thus less money to create. Voice acting and cinematics were used sparringly if at all. Investors expected less return (but still a profit) from their investment. That's part of the reason why you don't see many MMO's pop up anymore. It's incredibly expensive now compared to back in the day. Especially now that voice acting is often expected, which can astronomically increase the costs of making a game.

In 2004, WoW cost 63 million to launch and over 200 MILLION over its first 4 years to maintain and develop. In 2011, SWTOR cost over 200 MILLION DOLLARS just to launch. Compare that to the 6 million it cost to develop Ultima Online or the 3 million it cost to make Everquest. That's an incredibly high financial risk to make with no guarantee of success and a return on investment. Making expansions is obviously cheaper but still very expensive. Even moreso today than in MMO's of the past because of the voice acting alone. Add in professional orchestras and vocalists to perform your epic soundtrack and you're talking about a great deal more money needed today than 10-20 years ago.

Here's an example from 1998's Baldur's Gate. One of the earlier pc games I saw with any sort of cinematic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYoRmGHIxA4

Compare THAT primitive thing to the cinematics we see today and tell me how much of a difference in cost it was to make them.

[Airget]

WOW sells stuff and they are a subscription based as well. If it works, it works, if people buy it, they continue to do it. You may not like it, but if it's showing profits why would they stop for you? The extra items are there for players to have the option to show more support for the game they enjoy playing. You think everything should be in the game, but those items weren't designed with the game in mind, they are designed as a means for players to show additional support towards the game.

[Alynn]

A-Almeric...? //sobs internally

[PotatoTree]

Now that the cash shop is established, every time a new minion/mount/gear is designed there will be some guy in management wondering if it could be put in the cash shop instead. It's a conflict of interest.

If they want more money they should make the game better so more people want to sub.

[Nicodemus_Mercy]

Now that the cash shop is established, every time a new minion/mount/gear is designed there will be some guy in management wondering if it could be put in the cash shop instead. It's a conflict of interest.

That's not how the development process works.

If they want more money they should make the game better so more people want to sub.

That's not your decision to make.

They could have never added a cash shop, and you would never have gotten things like Minfilia's Outfit. The content patches might have been smaller or have less voice acting or shorter cinematics due to not having the extra income generated by the cash shop as well.

People need to stop trying to be armchair developers. While you have every right to give feedback and share your opinions with the developers, if you haven't even worked in the MMO business to any degree, you aren't really qualified to tell those who are developing a highly successful MMO what they are "doing wrong" in how they generate and manage revenue.

[PotatoTree]

They could have never added a cash shop, and you would never have gotten things like Minfilia's Outfit.

People need to stop trying to be armchair developers. If you haven't even worked in the MMO business to any degree, you aren't qualified to tell those who are developing a highly successful MMO what they are "doing wrong".

Now you're making assumptions. It could very well be the other way, that without a cashshop we'd get the outfit since it was paid by our sub. And your cash shop money could be funnelling into other non-ffxiv ventures for all you know. We're talking $60 games, $60 expansions, monthly sub fees, and more. This game is magnitudes more costly than any AAA game, and comparable to a fairly expensive hobby.

And so far where are we at now? I guess we got so much money from the cash shop that we can increase the number of dungeons per patch from 3 to 2 right!!! Oh wait.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the game. I've spent countless money subbing from 1.0, getting retainers, buying merchandise, etc. Possibly in the thousands now. If we want to use money as a metric to judge "support", then well I'm probably a bigger "fan" than 99% of players here. But I'm not going to pretend that SE isn't greedy. The only thing that needs to stop is people constantly trying to white night triple dipping.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Now that the cash shop is established, every time a new minion/mount/gear is designed there will be some guy in management wondering if it could be put in the cash shop instead. It's a conflict of interest.

If they want more money they should make the game better so more people want to sub.

That isn't how it works. Yoshi and the devs have no say in what gets put on the Mogstation. Such things are handled by corporate executive who essentially mandate it because people buy them. Micro-transactions are a direct response to the staggering costs involved with developing a game. Final Fantasy X cost a meager $34 million back in 2000. Nowadays, it's not uncommon for games to break the hundred million mark. Companies aren't going to simply eat those losses. Therefore, they look to push them onto customers, who in all fairness, demand the highest quality. That quality comes with a price. Were it not micro-transactions, game prices would rise considerably. Capcom even flatout admitted they want to charge more. And I believe EA shared similar sentiments. Instead, they adopted micro-transactions, which at least gives people a choice. I don't have to pay extra unless I so choose. FFXIV takes this a step further and literally offers nothing that isn't aesthetic. I'd rather that than pay significantly higher for the game or subscription.

Want it to change? Convince people to stop supporting it. Complaining on the forums won't do a thing because the people reading it have no say. Speak with your wallet.

[PotatoTree]

...

First, how does Yoshi not having a say matter at all? Are these people from management not part of SE? We're complaining about SE here. And again, there is no transparency with the money here, and of course they don't need to be. But you assume that the money is going into this game, when for all you know it could be going into making some next mobile game.

I don't intend to change anything by complaining on the forums. They rarely listen to forum posts, and anyone who has a negative opinion has already left the game or is banned from the forum. It's just an echo chamber here.

I also clearly don't intend to change anything with microtransactions, as I'm obviously still paying for stuff and still playing the game here. I'm not strapped for cash or anything. But the triple dipping principle and how you and others seem to think this is not only the future of gaming, but that it's necessary, is very disappointing.