Until SE makes male and female glamours equal...

[Synrin]

Can I see your poll of the entire player base on this issue ?

That's a bold statement considering someone on the first page respectfully disagreeing got more likes than the OP. I mean, I would like some kind of cosmetic wings in the game but telling other people to just "deal with it" isn't going to convince them why changing the aesthetic of the game to something they find tacky is a good idea.

You are taking the sentences out of context. Pretty low, but okay, let me explain, I help;

When making future glam gear, keep doing what you've done recently: Sets that are modeled on everything upon release. This gives EVERYONE more options. Those that complain can learn to deal crossdressing and any other fashion issues. The MAJORITY OF THE PLAYER BASE WANTS more options on both genders. Chip away at the old pieces as you will, but no more gender exclusive glamour gear.

The poster NEVER said anything about crossdressing becoming the new trend or that that is what EVERYONE WANTS. I don't particularly want to cross dress. I want to make a point that it is not fair that females get the Aymeric hair and I don't get the Y'shtola hair. It is about making the glamouring options equal. That's all. They can keep the bridesmaid's dress female-only. But then they should make the best man suit male-only. See the point?

[Reinha]

You are taking the sentences out of context. Pretty low, but okay, let me explain, I help;

The poster NEVER said anything about crossdressing becoming the new trend or that that is what EVERYONE WANTS. I don't particularly want to cross dress. I want to make a point that it is not fair that females get the Aymeric hair and I don't get the Y'shtola hair. It is about making the glamouring options equal. That's all. They can keep the bridesmaid's dress female-only. But then they should make the best man suit male-only. See the point?

Out of context? The context was:

When making future glam gear, keep doing what you've done recently: Sets that are modeled on everything upon release. This gives EVERYONE more options. Those that complain can learn to deal crossdressing and any other fashion issues. The MAJORITY OF THE PLAYER BASE WANTS more options on both genders. Chip away at the old pieces as you will, but no more gender exclusive glamour gear.

"More options" is a vague statement, word salad without meaning. Even wings would be "more options" and it has nothing to do with this thread. The elaboration comes after. "No more gender exclusive gear." The claim of the poster I quoted is that the majority wants no gender locks. SomeRandomHuman specifically mentioned no gender locks and you are shifting the topic to equality in the number of items which is an entirely different thing. I also never said anything about trends or everyone wanting to cross dress so please stop misrepresenting me. Pretty low. The question is, if the majority wants change to the status quo of how outfits are gender locked, then why is this post respectfully stating that female and male fashion are different and should stay different, getting more likes than anything else in this thread?

The game also has a particular aesthetic that they want to maintain and I am very happy for them to keep doing that.
. . .
I think they should just keep doing what they are doing, not because I am given access to more clothing (which is in my control because I choose to play a female) but because it is my aesthetic ideal that the Men in game look a certain way, or more accurately; don't look a certain way.

That is why I said it's a bold statement to say the majority wants change towards no gender locks. I also gave my opinion about the ineffective persuasion tactic the poster displayed. I fully understand the point and premise of this thread but what I said had nothing to do with my preference relating to the general topic. When you next try to educate me about the context, please understand the context. I was replying to a specific person's claim and not to what you think this thread is generally about.

[Serilda]

My understanding is close to Synrin's here. It was definitely a bit ambiguous, but I read the statement as meaning the majority of players want more options (which I think is undeniably true, otherwise new glamours wouldn't be such hot news and nobody would be collecting gear). I don't tend to see much evidence of a majority of people not wanting more stuff.

Where the issue creeps in is that in context it can be read as an assertion that the majority of players want guys in skirts, which is every bit as made-up as the crazy claims we always get that S-E can never let guys wear skirts because the majority of people will unsubscribe. Pretty sure they won't, but at the same time there is undeniable, quantifiable evidence that a lot of people want fewer guys in skirts - whether they're the type of people who have mysteriously never noticed we already have loads of skirts, or the type of people who know they have a bunch of skirts and actually just want more pants. I think they're wrong but their opinions still exist.

Personally, I think the truth of it is that the vast majority of people don't actually care. A small minority actively hates the idea of fewer gender locks, another actively supports it, and a third doesn't really understand the issue but wants more stuff to wear however they end up getting it.

[Synrin]

snip

More options is a vague statement? How is that so when the poster replied on the 28th page of a thread dealing with this specific issue? Furthermore, your wings are just as flashy as the succubus horns but here we are. Not gender-locking stuff in the future and keeping in mind that there are two sides of the coin (male and female) is what's important. The Gold Saucer bunny ears, females got them, but what about males? What do they get? Why can't SE design something that would be equally as 'derpy' for both genders? I was also referring to the 'deal with it' part of both posts, not misinterpreting anything. The system needs to change, sure, male characters look a certain way, females too, but there is no way in hell you can convince me that it is fair that females get more WAYS to look just that certain way. And to conclude, I am not trying to educate what this thread is about, it's about seeing things from a different angle.

And as Serilda said, there is various reasons why people support and do not support this thread, and various ways they interpret the whole discussion. But taking only one side, or turning a blind eye to the issue, will not solve anything.

EDIT: And since you like to talk about likes rather than actual posts and contributing, why has this gotten 7 likes?

I fully support this thread! I look forward to your return, Lukha and your screenshots (and everyone else's too)! Here is my dapper Elezen

Omg, a woman in a suit. Better burn it before a guy puts on a skirt or bunny ears!

[Faliandra]

Hm, personally, I think the main problem here is that youre trying to raise awareness of a cause by using the wrong/a misleading way.

Last couple of pages a lot of people stated that its not necessarily about crossdressing, yet this whole thread has many, many pictures at attempted crossdressing.
Even if youre only tying to prove another point by crossdressing, in the end, most people will just see a lot of these screenshots, read the first few posts and speculate that "uhu,these people like crossdressing,
and now they want the rest of the female-only gear unlocked to even get more crossdressing options".

Next point why you will only find so few people NOT agreeing with the cause here in this thread is because you have to put 94784731875691748973434 different disclaimers to make sure
everyone understands youre not being aggressive or discriminating against certain people just because you disagree cos otherwise some people here get super crazy defensive and push the report button.

So yeah, a different approach would probably be more successful. I think no one would mind more options either way. But the majority of people wants to keep certain aesthetics
genderspecific (and you really dont need a poll for this to figure that the majority wants to dress by standards...) and this thread just simply comes across as something it is not.


I also just wanna say that, gender-unlocking certain female-only sets would require a major overhaul of work to make it work on guys.
I know there's been pictures of a modified version of the female-only thavnairian set with pretty little changes. But I'm willing to bet that a lot of guys would still be salty about it if they unlocked that set because:
"Great, now I have more options to glamour and still can't use them because I dont wanna look feminine"
Yes, this thread obviously lures in a lot of people who dont mind the crossdressing or even want more options for that (dont deny it now)
but i guarantee you, the majority will not support this cause, primarily because they want glamours that are tailored towards the traditional male gender.
I have personally talked about this issue with a lot of guys in the game over the course of the last few weeks and whenever I mentioned glamour (i didnt even bring up this thread),
they moaned about having so few options and how everything seems to be based off for females and how "I cant use these shoes because they have heels....this Robe makes me look like a princess.....lately they implemented
various kinds of flowers you can put in your hair which I cant make use of cause it looks silly on my character". Those guys wouldnt be happy if more female-only gear got genderunlocked.
They want more options tailored specifically to guys. (You really think guys thinking this way are a minority? No way.)

So bottom line is, this thread perfectly displays how theres already quite a few options to make your character look androgynous. So if thats what some people want, they can go for it and they should appreciate having the possibility of being able to do so.
What many people want is more options in general that are tailored to each gender. Now, since guys obviously are at disadvantage, I do think they should get a few things to make up for it but I'm not convinced that unlocking those female-only
glams is gonna be a satisfying solution without a major overhaul on them.

[Serilda]

Last couple of pages a lot of people state that its not necessarily about crossdressing, yet this whole thread has many, many pictures at attempted crossdressing.

You make some very fair points, but there are already scores of threads on this subject spanning pretty much every other argument. A lot of the anti-unisex people end up coming out with remarks about how unlocking more clothes will be the end of FFXIV because men will be able to wear skirts, so the original point of this thread was that we already can. And the world hasn't ended. That's why we're wearing some of the prettiest outfits rather than our usual coats and pants. It is, by definition, not cross-dressing because in the game there are clear and unbreakable restrictions on what male and female characters can physically equip. The Uraeus Skirt is legitimately a miniskirt for men and women because the game designers specifically wanted it to be that way. Real world issues have nothing to do with it, so we hope that by putting skirts on we can move the ongoing debate past that strange diversion and progress the actual discussion somewhere more productive.

"Great, now I have more options to glamour and still can't use them because I dont wanna look feminine"

That happens with every single set though. I don't like the Tidus set because I personally think it makes my hollow-faced middle-aged Elezen guy look like an wannabe teenager, but it would work for people who RP younger characters or have stockier builds. It would also work (perhaps with an added bra...) on a female character with tomboyish traits, just as the Yuna set would work on some males and not others (the most obvious example which takes preferences into account being Lalafell, as they would look exactly like a female Lalafell wearing it). Hair styles are an even more ridiculous example because none of the locked cash shop styles are particularly gendered, and certainly not more so than the bun and twirly ponytail styles we had a few patches ago. They can't refuse to make anything ever again just in case it doesn't look brilliant on everyone, because there probably isn't a single piece of gear in the game that everyone unanimously likes.

The flowers are a good example. We aren't able to use the gorgeous GARO spider lily for some reason, yet there are probably more than a dozen multicoloured roses and blossoms we can wear whenever we like. We can't wear bunny ears (even though male bunnies exist), but we can wear succubus horns (even though male 'succubi' don't exist). It makes no sense. It has nothing to do with gender at this point. The locking is being applied almost randomly with no rhyme or reason.

Personally, I'm happy for them to go either way with achieving equality - major overhauls to promote their aesthetic or no overhauls to add to the extensive selection of existing gear which was blatantly originally designed for one gender. My character is capable of looking amazing or terrible either way depending on how I dress him. The ball is very much in their court.

[Silverquick]

Can I see your poll of the entire player base on this issue ?

Yeah its screwy...

Half the gear they put out anyway that IS rather questionable get covered up by glamor two seconds later.

I kept wondering why the few if any of the opinions on this board match any kind of reality in game...

Then I found out, its because they go out and have you banned if you disagree with their opinion.

So basically they're just living in their own little bubble and their own little fantasy world and will brook no opinion that isn't their own.

Their own fragile ego can't handle having to defend their position.

[Serilda]

Their own fragile ego can't handle having to defend their position.

Excuse me, I defended my position to you multiple times and never got any response so I had rather assumed things were the other way around. Your previous points had nothing to do with glamour in a game. Do you want more glamour options or would you prefer that the inequality continues? Let's talk about it. Or maybe you can post some pictures of your character dressed the way you like, as the thread requests?

Your avatar shows you wearing the Shiva-themed crown at the moment which some people consider feminine, and others don't (culture is strange like that). You chose to wear it so I assume you like it. Show us your Hyur!

For reference, as far as I know none of the people requesting less arbitrary gender locking have any power whatsoever to 'have you banned' so you need not fear us there.

[Synrin]

For reference, as far as I know none of the people requesting less arbitrary gender locking have any power whatsoever to 'have you banned' so you need not fear us there.

The issue with this particular poster is that he openly insults LGBTQ+ community and uses derogatory slang words when he posts. My replies to his very 'constructive' responses were also removed. So yeah, there goes that.

I do also have to admit that Faliandra's post is one of the best ones here so far. 10/10

[Silverquick]

Excuse me, I defended my position to you multiple times and never got any response so I had rather assumed things were the other way around. .

Well now you know why you never got a response,

I found most of the points ludicrous and of questionable merit... however... apparently you or someone else didn't like what I had to say... and attempted to get me banned instead...

Yeah good move there... ban everyone else who doesn't share your view...

So you end up in your own little world... telling yourself what you wanted to hear anyway... regardless of whether it actually reflects any other opinions or reality in game.

You're just telling yourself what you wanted to hear anyway...