Until SE makes male and female glamours equal...

[Hito-Shura]

Given the almost homophobic nature of his post I am not surprised that people prefer to hide behind a like instead of voicing their "opinion". You might be right about them being "afraid" of being called out on it, but you know what? It would totally serve them right to hear how disgusting that sort of discriminatory behaviour is. I can feel a little bit of sympathy for those who say "I'd prefer more unique options for races and genders" and would like the items to stay locked for that reason, even though I dont share that opinion.

To those who are afraid of gays and worry about their manliness being taken away by male characters wearing "femine clothes" there is nothing to say but "You disgust me" - and if they're afraid to speak their homophobic mind, thats a good thing in my book because it shows that being gay is more accepted in this community than homophobia - as it should be.

Edit: I'm female btw - not gay. And I used to play a male elezen for two years. I was extremly disappointed when I didnt get to wear bunny ears on my male character - you wanna know why? Not because I consider that sexy but because I would have loved to make a hilarious easter-bunny glamour, using the reindeer-suit and the bunny-ears. My male character was allowed to be a reindeer, but not a bunny - that was obviously crossing a line.

PREACH IT! PREEEACH! In all seriousness though, you are perfectly right. People seem to like hiding behind someone who's verbally homophobic and not be judged for sharing shitty opinions.

Also, here is another drawing I'd like to share. I like to dress my character with revealing sets despite. Oddly enough, I often get questions regarding my revealing glamour but people fail to understand that such is no different than a lot of female glamours. Tsk tsk tsk...

[VanilleFang]

I'm just wondering how you expect them to "make glamour equal" when dresses and the like look better on traditional feminine bodies. Slight waists, wide hips, breasts... Those all help fill out a dress better than broad shoulders, a wide chest, and narrow hips.

Anyone can wear whatever they like, but don't expect the glamour to be "equal". How would a shirt like the one my character is wearing work on a male character (Manderville coatee)? It is specifically designed to show cleavage and hold the breasts in a certain way, while the male version is far more modest. The female version looks awful on Lalafell already, who have no boobs or hips to speak of either.

[Dualgunner]

To be fair, male Au Ra have the widest hips in the game. I would KILL to have hips like that on my fem'ra.

[Rokke]

I'm just wondering how you expect them to "make glamour equal" when dresses and the like look better on traditional feminine bodies. Slight waists, wide hips, breasts... Those all help fill out a dress better than broad shoulders, a wide chest, and narrow hips.

Au Ra males are the only playable race with a real hourglass body lol

[Ririta]

I'm just wondering how you expect them to "make glamour equal" when dresses and the like look better on traditional feminine bodies.

http://greatist.com/grow/100-years-womens-body-image

"Dresses and the like" will look great on whoever wears them.

[Lukha]

I wasn trying to ignore the trolls, but there are two points I really need to respond to.

I just wish people would quit sugar coating it by saying "Female glams for males" when they really just want "lewd glams for males".

I'm not sure where you got the idea that this is about being 'lewd', because it's not. There are sexy outfits being posted, but nothing tasteless. You might need to rethink your ideas about sexuality if you find 'showing leg and skin' to be the definition of 'lewdness', because there's a lot more to it than that. And even though you say 'not that there's anything wrong with that', the tone of your post sure seems to imply that there is.

It's also not entirely about being girly. I DO tend to lean more feminine in my glamours, because male Miqo'te are pretty and look good in that sort of outfit, but I usually prefer shorts over skirts myself? But the purpose of this thread is to prove the point that locking glamour items into 'masculine' and 'feminine' makes absolutely no sense in the context of the game's overall design, because there are many unisex items that are way more masculine or feminine than the items which were deemed so manly or girly that they had to be gender-locked.

The basic point is that, if males and females had, in pure numerical reckoning, the same number of glamour options available to them, there'd be a lot less complaining, even if I'd still be a little sad I couldn't wear certain things.

I'm just wondering how you expect them to "make glamour equal" when dresses and the like look better on traditional feminine bodies.

I expect them to 'make glamour equal' by allowing everyone to have the same raw number of options at the very least. Allowing everyone to pull from the SAME POOL of options would, in my opinion, be the best way to go about this, but if they wanted to go the 'separate but equal' route and just ensure that for every female-only item there was a corresponding male-only item, I would be content with that solution.

Though I would also argue that there is no such thing as a 'traditional feminine body'. Female bodies come in many different shapes and sizes, from buxom and curvy to flat and straight as a board, and if you've ever been shopping for a good-quality women's swimsuit you'd see that there are styles made to flatter every possible bodytype.

Besides, by your logic neither gender of Lalafell or Elezen ought to be permitted to wear feminine outfits, since those two races have almost no sexual dimorphism, whereas male and female Au Ra ought to switch which gender-locked items they have access to, since the males have womanly figures while the females are kinda on the boyish side...

[Lukha]

Separating my picture posts from responses so they don't accidentally get deleted again...

Thought I'd bring my Roe into the conversation.

You look positively dashing. The color compliments your coloring amazingly well, too! XD It's kinda cute how grumpy she looks in the Songbird outfit, though.

Tonight I made myself a lovely, classy dress with the Void Ark's dragoon body and the plain long skirt.


And then I realized that I looked kinda like Almira Gulch from the Wizard of Oz, so I hopped on my broomstick like a good Wicked Witch.

[Synrin]

A little bit disappointed that the original posts dealing with the homophobic guy got deleted while you guys are still discussing it. He may be a troll etc, but it did spark a discussion. Oh well..

[Serilda]

I just wish people would quit sugar coating it by saying "Female glams for males" when they really just want "lewd glams for males".

That other guy has been straight up trolling this thread every few days by dragging gay people into it to insult them for no reason, because as you rightly observe demanding glamour has absolutely nothing to do with a player being gay. I see his post has been deleted again and he's refused to engage about it again; in my eyes people who like his post are doing nothing more than liking a troll campaign to try to get this thread locked. He doesn't care about his own opinions in the slightest. He's just repeated the same argument and disappeared without reading any responses. Three times in a row.

The people requesting glamour are doing it for varying reasons; some like dressing their male characters up to look hot just as those with female characters often do, some want basically equal treatment in a game they pay for in terms of the raw numbers of glamour items and some simply just want bunny ears because they like bunny ears (a surprisingly high number of people fall into this category from one of the previous threads). Casting aspersions on everyone's intentions is no good. I don't think anyone has tried to hide it when they admire the male form and many posters over the two years of this campaign have come right out and said they are straight females - not that the angry people who hate fun seem to notice.

Incidentally, none of the items I want unlocked are even close to being as lewd as some of the fetish items casters can already wear. The fact that female characters are showered in directly 'lewd' items like the bunny suit is a peculiar double standard but overall I'm not exactly hurting for sexy ways to dress my Elezen.

I'm just wondering how you expect them to "make glamour equal" when dresses and the like look better on traditional feminine bodies.

They look better on my Elezen than on a female Lalafell too but the latter is actually allowed to wear more clothing than me. Different clothes look good on different shapes, and in Eorzea people come of varying shapes and sizes irrespective of gender. The completely arbitrary gender lock is an unnecessary additional complication; players should be allowed to decide how to dress their characters. Please note that there are only two actual dress-like items we're complaining about and one is an identical model to a skirt guys can already wear, except with an extra bow stuck to it. The lock-outs are that silly.

Edit: To clarify as I think we're not entirely on the same page, nobody (on this side at least) really minds things like the Manderville Coatee because both sides got something equivalent tailored to their body shape. That's good. I'm sure that many players of female characters (whether Lalafell or Miqo'te) may have preferred the more conservative male version but we're not fighting to demand a cleavage option for the guys here - even though more options are always good, lol. It's the items with no in-game male equivalent at all which suck the most. There are too many of those.

Thought I'd bring my Roe into the conversation.

What a gorgeous Roe! She can join the conversation whenever she wants

[Talraen]

A little bit disappointed that the original posts dealing with the homophobic guy got deleted while you guys are still discussing it. He may be a troll etc, but it did spark a discussion. Oh well..

Honestly, this thread has been pretty terrible for discussion, and it's mostly that troll's fault. I think there are valid, defensible reasons to be opposed to unlocking all female items for males (largely because at some point I felt that way, and I don't think I was a terrible person at the time, I've just matured), but being homophobic and conflating homosexuality with cross-dressing are not among them. Perhaps I'm just being naive, but I think the problem is that reasonable people who have these opinions and could actually contribute to a discussion* are afraid to actually say anything. The only people who are willing to post something are trolls and neanderthals. They're basically straw-manning themselves. I'd like to discuss this with reasonable people because I think I might actually be able to bring some around, but this guy ain't them.

*I will confess that, based on the responses in this thread, I don't think a "discussion" is what would actually occur if those people were to voice their opinions. But the truth is, no one has unfairly demonized anyone that I've seen in this thread. The one guy being demonized absolutely deserves it. So I hold out hope.